The Pleasure Narcissists Seek: Exploring Ghislaine Maxwell's Crime

Ghislaine Maxwell, the convicted assistant to infamous sexual predator Jeffrey Epstein, was just sentenced to 20 years in prison for her role in ruining the lives of countless girls. Collier discusses the narcissism that runs through Maxwell's actions and her defense. Collier also reflects on the similarities his own father shares with criminals, like Maxwell.

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• Collier breaks down why there should be no sympathy for people like Ghislaine Maxwell. He explains how people, even from affluent and privileged backgrounds, can turn to a life of horrendous crime.

• Doubling down on their crimes and mistakes: why convicted sex offenders and violent criminals often believe they've done nothing wrong.

• Grooming children takes all sorts of forms, but the main premise is someone coercing kids to do what they want. Collier describes how he believes his father was trying to groom him in an effort for Collier to take back his testimony that put his father in jail.

• In her testimony, Ghislaine Maxwell attempted to make herself look like the victim, without recognizing the real victims - all of the innocent girls she helped sexually traffic. Collier shares a letter from his father to show the striking similarity between criminals.

• How do you deal with a narcissist parent? The trauma they inflict on their children is horrible, but as Collier explains, the trauma they inflict on others can be even worse

Click to listen to Daniela Miller's Episode on "Predators I've Caught" with Chris Hansen

Full Transcript:

Collier Landry 0:02

She went into this, this "victim narcissism" sort of thing. She apologized to the victims but then said that she herself was a victim and that she never she wished that she had never met Jeffrey Epstein and, you know, she described him as a manipulative, cutting and controlling man who fooled everyone in his orbit. You know, she said the pain she said she felt sorry for the pain of his victim his victims experienced. And she said, quote, it is this it is the greatest regret of my life that I ever met Jeffrey Epstein. She did not apologize to the victims.

Intro Stinger 0:55

Testimony continued today in the most notorious criminal trial in Richland County history. Dr. John Boyle is accused of killing his wife, Noreen, and burying her body in the basement of his new home in Erie, Pennsylvania. The 12-year-old son finally took the stand. I heard a scream, I heard a thud. It was about this loud. We the jury find the defendant guilty.

Collier Landry 1:15

When I was twelve years old, my testimony sent my father to prison for murdering my mother. This podcast serves as a type of therapy and reconciliation for myself, and it is my hope that it helps anyone who has experienced deception, betrayal, and dark trauma. I’m Collier Landry, and this is Moving Past Murder.

Hey, Movers what's going on? Welcome back to another episode of Moving Past Murder. I'm your host Collier, Landry and what's going on? Oh, let's go in. Let's go. Well, another week and what do we get has been lots of things to discuss in this episode. But first, I want to say thank you to all of you, who have come here via Tik Tok, or follow me on social media or just joining the podcast for the first time. Thank you for joining us and thank you for supporting and speaking of support, I want to say thank you to my latest Patreon subscribers Michelle Bella and Ansley Saunders thank you guys so much for your support of my Patreon which if you guys are curious is patreon.com/collierlandry. You can find the show notes if you want to support and thank you guys for supporting me all my socials, anything at Collier Landry on tick tock Instagram. Those of you that join me on my instagram lives. Okay. Wow, yes, what a week it has been. There was a Supreme Court case, there was couple of Supreme Court cases that were decided. And it's very crazy. I think the biggest sort of news out of the week in the true crime world has been the another predatory case. But a much bigger one that evolved many, many people's lives and innocent victims and young girls underage girls that were groomed by the one and only delayed Maxwell, who was sentenced on Tuesday of this week to 20 years in prison for her role in grooming young women for Jeffrey Epstein, who of course, as we all know, evaded any sort of justice by taking his own life while incarcerated either he was awaiting trial or he was waiting to be arrayed. I can't really remember which but yeah, the dude took the easy way out and Ghislaine was left to face to music and we want to talk a little bit about that because she was basically saying I would love to face the music. First though, as you guys know, I always do a letter from one of my readers or would you guys reach out to me a DMS on Instagram Tik Tok, whatever the social media platform Twitter, I read all that stuff or I tried to read it as much as possible because now it keeps growing and growing. And I try to get to them I try to respond to you guys and I definitely tried to read them on the program to respond. So this is from Daniella Daniella reached out to me on Instagram the other day. And this is what she says she says Call your I found your podcast after watching your interview with Chris Hanson. And if since bids nearly every episode, my birth father Dan Allen was one of the predators caught on to Catch a Predator and the Riverside sting. During my early childhood Dan stalked and harassed my mother he was eventually arrested had math disguises and a gun in his vehicle. After he was convicted and sent to prison he and released I was abandoned by not only him, but also by his entire family. Sounds familiar? My family never spoke about Dan and I was reminded often by my mother to not share my experience with others because it would cause them to look at me differently. I was 14 when he was caught on to Catch a Predator. And as a young teen, I can remember while reading the chat logs, looking at the explicit photos he sent to a decoy that was my age. I watched his To Catch A Predator predator segment, Audrey pee trying to make sense of it. I shared this with very few people because of not only my immense shame, but also the fear that I had somehow inherited his monster DNA. I spoke publicly about my appearance for the first time on Chris Hansen's podcast last year, which is predators. I caught it Chris was awesome with the show. Like you say on your podcast, finally sharing it was not only a form of therapy but also reconciliation. I guess I am writing to say thank you for your willingness to dive deep into the far-reaching consequences of violent crime, family estrangement stigmatization of children, and internalized shame. I've yearned to hear stories like mine since I was a kid. I appreciate you your courage and your steadfast approach to life. You are making such a big difference. Thank you for the bottom of my heart and keep telling your story. Sending you good vibes, my friend.

Wow, Daniella. That is incredible. Thank you for sharing it. I know there's a long winded message for a lot of you but it this is why I do what I do. 100% This is why I started I did my Filbert murder Mansfield. This is why I started telling my story. This is why I do this stuff. I make the podcast moving past murder you guys are listening to now. And why I share my story on social media platforms like Tiktok because of this exact thing. So you guys know 100% That you are not alone, that there is no reason to feel shame, or guilt or any of these feelings, these negative feelings. Because this is really tough stuff to deal with. It's tough stuff to deal with when you're a child, and have your father be somewhere like this. And then and, you know, see this on the news, or see this on a television program, which was immensely popular, and the subject of a lot of scrutiny via YouTube or social media channels or the blogs like she was saying. My heart goes out to you, Danielle, and I'm so glad that you have found solace in my words and what it is. And I'm so glad you connected with Chris, and we're on his podcast because that's really cool. Because that is a really amazing way for you to round trip all of this for you. Because that's one of the things that I was able to do. And I and this is gonna lead me into what we're gonna talk about this episode. But the thing for me is, I feel like when I made my film a burger in Mansfield, I felt I didn't realize that at the time that I was making the film. I mean, I do I do. It's sort of but I guess I didn't realize how important it has become to not only be but my platform, and how it has become for you guys in my audience. Because being able to sort of I think one of the things, when you go through extreme trauma, is making sense of it all. Because it doesn't make any sense. Right. And you know, we've talked there I've talked many times with people this program, Tara Newell, you know, Dr. Ron Hillis Gibbons, we were talking about the art of routine, right, and how that can lead you through trauma, talking to Chris Hansen, himself talking to others, right. And one of the things, when you're in trauma, is, is you're trying to sort of reconciling, like, why these things happen? And how you're gonna cope with it, and like, what's next? And I, you know, I have done in my TED Talk, I've mentioned, you know, like, your wide and what now, right? Do you kind of are trying to assess when you go through these traumatic experiences, why did this happen, like what has happened to me or other people around you, and then trying to figure out what you're gonna do about it. And I always, I always say that trauma, often you can lead yourself through your trauma by just sort of taking hold of it, and and not feeling victimized by it, but more so feeling empowered by it. And, you know, because you do go into, like, what de Adela describes is, you know, the shame, the guilt and, you know, the her mother saying, you know, don't share this experience with other people because they will judge you, which is unfortunately very true. It really is. I felt that growing up even though I was in I mean, I was in a community where my the murder of my mother occurred where we were from. So it was really amplified for me because I had a lot of people that supported me, but I also had a lot of people that did not support me or did not believe that my father was guilty or looked at me in a lot of ways. As if I was the prodigal son, for lack of a better word, I was going to do the same thing. So I understand and I and you know, I've done several episodes about this, like questioning if this is really in my DNA, am I capable of something like this? So Daniella, I completely understand where you're coming from, because I felt the same thing. And I'm so grateful that you were able to find this program and find what I'm doing and find a another kindred spirit because that's really what it is. It's about building your community around you. Your trauma can be Add your survivor community and the people and really discuss these things openly and also fighting in action. And with you with me was making the film confronting my father in prison, right? There's those moments, there's also that sort of circadian thing I came out to Hollywood. And then I got into the business in order to tell my story and did that right. She got on Chris's podcast was able to talk to Chris who was the band who got her father arrested for his, his predatory sexually predatory behavior towards minors. And, you know, and sort of have that, I mean, in a lot of ways she could blame Chris for, you know, getting her father in trouble. If that's a very easy thing to do, right? She could, she could project that onto him. Especially when she was a child, but it's happened younger. So for her to be able to have those moments with Chris on the planet have to listen to this episode of podcasts now.

To be able to have that it really does tie it up for her. And that is something that is amazing is so empowering, I cannot tell you how much and just to have this, I cannot tell you how this how empowering this is for me. It makes me feel really good that I am helping with listeners mental health with their, with them, leading them through things like narcissistic abuse and things of that nature. And, and this guilt, the shame of the stigmas that come around these things because there shouldn't be we are all human people make mistakes and things of that nature. This is this is the underlying root problem of all of this is, is this sort of flying above, you know, flying in the face to fly high in the face of the law, or the face of it being indignant is really what it is. It's this sort of indignance that a lot of these people have when they're caught instead of just saying, hey, look, I did wrong. Let's fix this. This they kind of double down what do you double down on your badness? That is, that makes it worse, because then it shows that you don't really think that what you did was wrong. I mean, my father has done that my father being a sociopath and a narcissist, right now he has not been properly diagnosed. Look, I am not a psychologist, but I have just been dealing with this my entire life. So and I speak from experience, as you all know, but what do you double down and where you're defensive, and you're like, a lot of times these people don't think that what they did was wrong. So they double down and and it's like, oh, well, okay, now if I have to apologize, or I guess I did something wrong, but they really at the fundamental core of what they're doing. Does, they do not think that what they did was wrong. And this leads me into what I was going to say about Gallade. Maxwell. So Glenn Maxwell, this week, was sentenced to 20 years in prison. prosecution was like, I think they were shooting for like 30. For that, I don't know, 90 to 50 years or 35 years or something like it was a big number, and it's justifiable number for sure, considering the collateral damage of her actions, and that of Epstein's, but they shouldn't be any 20 years and why I'm saying this is, you know, obviously it's it's federal court, there's no cameras allowed in there's no you there's Oh, it's only people listening. They can they can recount what they've heard, but apparently delayed before she was sentenced went up into like a little booth which is now like all covered and plexiglass because of COVID and things like that. But basically said in a nutshell, from what I have read online, and from what I've heard, is, she went into this, this victim narcissism sort of thing. She apologized to the victims, but then said that she herself was a victim, and that she never she wished that she had never met Jeffrey Epstein. As I you know, she described him as a manipulative, cutting and controlling man who fooled everyone in his orbit. You know, she said the pain she said she felt sorry for the pain of his victim his victims experienced. And she said, quote, it is this. It is the greatest regret of my life that I ever met Jeffrey Epstein. Okay. She said she was sorry for the pain that his victims experience. She did not apologize to be victims. Like this anti farmer who has been one of these leaders. I believe in the Epstein case. He was one of the original people to come forward. I believe her or her younger sister was also grouped by Glee Maxwell ad abused by Epstein and his cronies. You know, she she had to have the courage, the courage to really because, again, a lot of these victims felt a lot of guilt and shame, which is not their fault. added with your ba grooved and where you are being manipulated by these people and you're being gaslit you are being coerced and controlled by them. And it's don't tell anybody it's oh, this is good. And for those of you that don't really know, I, I would say that I haven't been groomed. But I have, actually when I think about it, because even though I'm not a victim of sexual assault, or sexual violence in that way from my father, I have had other abuses. But I think that

the grooming, a lot of that took place after my father was in prison is as I read these letters, which all of you when I read them on the podcast, you can hear just the sort of the groovy that they think guilt and all of these things. And, you know, much of his the content of his letters over almost a 30-year period of all trickled down to one thing, which is getting me to rescind my testimony against him, because I was the key witness for the prosecution at 12 years old. And because I had led investigators to, to discover my mother's body and those things. So I think that, you know, he was always groobie for that, because if I had ever come forward and said, You know what, look, I was coached, I was manipulated by the system. The prosecutor told me to say this, the detectives told me to say this Dave best for, you know, he would get out immediately, it'd be immediately as you know, a couple of days, but he would be released for present, because that would be the crux of the case. Right. So I believe that from a very young age, because I was sort of the crux of the case, right? That my father was grooming me to rescind my testimony. I mean, it was very apparent when you read the letters when I read the to you guys on the show, when I read about tick tock. It's very clear what he wants and what he wants me to do and his objective, right. So but appeal at a young man whose mother you Bernard is terrible, like a young child. And it's terrible. It's just, it's the lowest of the lows beyond the pale. So again, Glenn Maxwell going up there, not admitting her, her not really taking ownership for her role in all of this, which is she was the she was like the shell or she was like the shell, she was the shell for Epstein, his girlfriend, you can trust her, Oh, I'm on your side, let me get you a purse. Libby gets you some fancy dinners and all these things are very attractive to, to, you know, a young person in society. They're attractive to anyone really. But when you think about if you're if you're a young person, what people are paying attention to you in a in a way, that is very, that is very outside the door, but you become very over sexualized. I mean, obviously, they were sexualized, but people are paying a lot of attention to you. And that's one of the things you know, which I will talk about, in another episode, when I came to Los Angeles, you know, I became a model, I quickly got myself in very good shape. And I kind of discovered this whole world of like, oh, there are a lot of people that are that are attracted to you. And it's a lot, it's overwhelming, and I was 23 years old at the time, not 14, you know, it is a woman and having people fold over you and buy you gifts. I mean, it's a lot, especially and especially if you come from a broken background, where you've never had anything like that often these people that are in these situations that are grooming the individuals for this predatory behavior, to pray upon them. They do this to you know, by their trust and to earn their trust and to you know, welcome you're part of the family that if you're part of the family, you're not going to tell what our little secrets are. Right. And I mean, we all know the story. I mean, this is the history of, of, you know, of pedophilia and of child molestations in in, you know, in the Catholic Church, and through religion and that religion, per se, but you know, in, you know, in situations where where people have power are exuding that power over other individuals that's really at the core of this, and this is what it is. So to have Maxwell go up there and basically say that she is a victim just like everyone else, is almost insulting. And the judge apparently saw it that way because the Department of Probation had recommended that she get between 15 and 17 years and he said no 20 or he or she, the judge said 20 years obviously was not moved by Miss Maxwell's appeal to the court decided to just say no, I'll give you 20 Like you doubled down you came up here you did apologize you double down try to make yourself to a victim Yeah 20 years no problem. Give it away like it's candy as a Henry Hill's dinner as a Harry Hill's character played by Ray Liotta God rest his soul it Goodfellas gave gave us five years like He was given away candy, or 10 years or whatever it was anyways, gave to her 20 years like she, he or she was giving away candy is what I'm trying to say.

Yeah, victim narcissist. I'm a victim just like you is. And that's not to say that, you know, she wasn't, she wasn't manipulated by Epstein, or she wasn't unser, under some sort, of course of control from Epstein. But she knew what she was doing. She knew what she was doing. She knew why she was doing it. She was also a high society person who really quite To be honest, from everything that I've come to know about her. Your father owned a newspaper, I believe, and I and I've talked about this in the past episode, but again, it's sort of vague the details. But, you know, she came from a very wealthy background and a wealthy family and didn't have to go down this road, which I think is what makes it all the more obvious that she was doing this because she is also a predator. She has no reason no benefit. You know, a lot of times people will do when they are put in positions where they have an opportunity to have their own personal advancement or their advancement of their family, like look at the mafia, for example. You know, the mafia will often you know, it's a family, right, like Cosa Nostra, right? You have these, you know, individuals that are looking out for their family members and want to better their family by making, you know, hordes of money illegally, and putting their own lives at risk and things but doing these horrible things to other people. But the end goal is like, there were a street kid that was raised, you know, Bedford Stuyvesant, and joined a gang and they're doing street gang, and they became a mafia, Mafia, Hitman or whatever. They're doing it for the sort of own survival. A lot of times I think that somebody like Glee, Maxwell, in my opinion, was doing it for their own pleasure. They got pleasure, they derive pleasure from doing these things, or covering up these things. And so it's very interesting time in our society and very interesting time, like I said, that sort of true crime world is when these you know, the these predators have these people that I don't know. Join along for the party, I guess, you know, it's, it's wild. But the damage, all back to the damage the victims, the survivors, the people who have showed strength, in the face of adversity, you're to be commended, because it takes a lot of fucking balls, takes a lot of balls to stare this down to not let this derail your life. So if anyone is listening that has been through this, or been through the situation, whether with Epstein or others, I commend you for your courage because it is not easy taking you know, you can be taking the easy way out, such as a coward like Epstein a piece of shit. Like Jeffrey Epstein taking his own life in his cell because he can't face it. My father, who, who would I bring up this letter in my film a burger and Mansfield, trying to get his reaction of like, why when I asked you to please complete about my mother's murder, so I could move on with my life. So everyone could do it for you as well. He came back with a victim narcissist responsive. Well, I can't tell you what I was thinking at the time. But I was very low in my life. And I even contemplated suicide like okay, we're supposed to feel sorry for you for murdering my mother. And this brings me to a point. I found a letter recently as I'm going through these because I'm putting these together for a book. I'm actually putting together a tour that is going to happen, hopefully in 2023. It's going to happen in 2023. I'm really excited about it. I've talked about a little bit on my IG lives and it's been a goal of mine to do this, but podcast first, that it will get into these other things. But I put it together these letters that My Father has sent Me. And there is a very interesting lawyer that struck me this this is written to me in 2007 it was on my birthday, which is February 28. For those of you adding to the Amazon wishlist or shopping list just getting you started Xavi, this sort of woe is me and he, he opens the letter, and I believe at the time I was dealing with a fallout. So Wednesday evening, February 28 2007. Dear bopper, I was Dutch gave me your letter this afternoon. I was very happy to hear from you. But I am sorry you had to go through such a horrible mess. I can relate firsthand about losing everything at the hands of unscrupulous individuals. It has been a bitter lesson for me personally, and the repercussions on you and Cressy So Chris, he is my half sister that was bored for 12 days before my father was arrested for the murder was my mother. She was the child of his mistress sherry. And yeah,

he can relate. So it's stunning and then I'm going to cut to the end of the letter that says we have both survived some pretty rotten times over the past 17 years. I look for our futures to be bright and successful. Stay safe and alert keep the faith always I love it miss you bundles of bundles, bundles and bundles. Love XOXO Daddy What Happy birthday, he says. Again, this is very similar to like what delayed Maxwell was saying so Oh, I can relate to I can relate to you victims. I can really because I was also a victim. Never mind what I perpetrated on you, nevermind the grooming, nevermind the way that we were such that the way that I brought you into this world, the way that there were these that I put you into these certain scenarios with very rich and powerful men that were then going to take advantage of you sexually. rob you of your innocence of your childhood. It is beyond the pale. It's it's staggering because it to me I really feel like you know, this is you know, again Daniella with her with her message through Instagram, you know? You think about these individuals? And then if you're related to them, does that carry on through your DNA? And you know, one of the other things I wanted to discuss today was, how do you deal with a narcissist parent? You know, how do you deal with your parent is a narcissist. And they put you through this type of trauma. And they inflict this type of trauma on other people. That's the worst is not only when you you have a narcissistic parent that puts this trouble with you, but then puts trouble on other people, and then tries to make it somehow relate back to you that you're in the same boat is that because of their absolutely horrific actions. And that's what my father did. That's what my father is trying to relate to me here. You know, nevermind that he's been telling me he's innocent of murder my mother over the years and things of that nature. And even though I witnessed it, and I testified, and he's always trying to get me to rescind this testimony. And I guess, you know, a lot of people reach out to me on like, how do I deal with this? Like, how do I deal with my father's behavior? How do I reconcile all of that, and to be honest with you, again, as I was saying, in response to Danielle is common, is it's almost like you you bring these things full circle. If you're fortunate enough to be able to bring these things full circle, it's amazing, because you're doing exactly that. But if you can't, there are other ways to cope because I had to deal with not bringing it full circle for 2526 years. So one of the ways that I would do that, and I would cope is I would say early on, when I still didn't really understand I still to be honest with you. I mean, I'm in my 40s now I still don't quite understand where where the bullet was that I realized actually I do I do. But I don't quite really understand the impact of the narcissism or when I realize it but I do remember when it was and it was actually when my father and I get up from the table in a murder of and so the photos like right over my shoulder for those of you on YouTube without my SB confronted my father in prison, very crucial institution. I remember getting out when he we got up and I hugged him and I said I love you pop in which I need remember doing until the New York Times journalist asked me about it. i i I realized I said I think I turned to my director Barbara Kopple. And I said Can somebody please just tell me that

that the same blood that causes my veins does it pores that is veins like we're not related because I don't know what I was just dealing with? Because it was just so vapid and empty and I was getting no response and I think that's a lot of times when you when you have this narcissistic parent, they are just completely oblivious of all of their actions. Whether that abuse is inflicted to you whether abuse is inflicted to you and your siblings, your your parental figure your mother or father or or other people outside of your home. I mean, I had a friend that I grew up with I'm in high school, and his father was the baseball coach. And many, many years later, it came out that he was molesting some of those young players. Which was heartbreaking. heartbreaking for a lot of reasons because you, I didn't play baseball, fortunately. But his son was a friend of mine, he went and we went to the same school. I mean, he was a year older than I am. And I can't imagine the pay that he had to go through this, this news broke out probably when he was almost 30 or early 30s, I think, still doesn't make it any less painful. And to hear this about your father, who you've grown up idolizing and not realize because a lot of times when these situations happen, these narcissists are in control, whether they're a baseball coach, or a church pastor, or, you know, they're the guy that runs a local subway shop, I don't know. Are there a rich and powerful business magnate? It doesn't matter who they are. It's really it's very, very painful. And it's very painful to reconcile and to deal with that. And to think that you could be related to these people. So again, back to what Danielle is saying, I'm what I relate to my father being a narcissist, it did take me a while once I discovered like, really what narcissism is and what the habits are, and the things that make you a narcissist, because I just used to think it's like, you know, portrait of Dorian Gray, right? Okay, you're looking at yourself, the mirror and whatever. You know, that whole sort of thing with narcissists are narcissists, right? Oh, look at myself. Pretty today, that's being narcissistic. But that is not a narcissist. It's quite different. And these behaviors are so destructive. And it always comes down to like the sort of epigenetics if at all, I was engaging in another with another individual in a you wonderful young woman who are on Instagram, and she's an influencer in Florida, and she, you know, she's going through with her daughter, and she's gone through it herself. And the Father's not around, and the father can care less if seems like, I don't know, the whole story of their whole background, their story, but, and, of course, you know, you get into abusive relationships, and there's a pattern and you get into another abusive relationship that you things will change. And it's just, it's so unfortunate. It's heartbreaking. It's like, Oh, my God. But, you know, again, it's when you start to recognize these patterns, you start to go, oh, well, could this be but she, she was, you know, really getting very heavily into EMDR therapy, and I actually, she's gonna be on the program. So she said she would be able to show so I can't wait to have her day was Kendra. And she was getting very heavily into EMDR. And she was saying that that's really helping her cope with that. So those things, she, you know, hope, you know, there's a lot of discussion about epigenetics and passed down trauma through childhood, you know, from generational trauma, intergenerational trauma, and it's where she's really engaged in like, really dove deep into this in the last couple of years to because she obviously is a mother wants to protect her daughter, of course, and let's protect herself and her family and and know that she's doing the right thing. And I think that a lot of times, when you have these narcissistic parents, you don't want to carry all those traits. You don't want to be a destructive person, and we look, the end of the day, we all want to put there, I think release, we all want to put our head on the pillow know that we've done a lot more good that we have harm, at least I do. You know, or at least if the harm I do is only to myself and not other individuals. But you know, doing stupid things. But no, in all seriousness, I think that, you know, we wouldn't be I think despite all of the craziness of this world, and I've said this ad nauseam on this program, over many episodes, I will continue to say it probably I will die on this hill, but the world is a wonderful and beautiful place. You can't let these things skew you in a way that you let them destroy control you because it is so easy, is so easy for that to happen and it is so difficult to not let it happen. Right. So difficult to let it not happen. And to resist that, to resist hearing all the patterns of behavior to resist.

be destructive to others. And look, I am far from a perfect individual. I am not on a soapbox here to say that I am some perfect individual. I have made plenty of mistakes in my relationship, my romantic relationships, in life, my friendships in life, professional relationships, I am a human being I am flawed to the core. I will continue to be flawed till the day I take my last breath. But I try my best to learn from experiences and to again do a lot more good than I do heart Don't think narcissists feel that way. Because they don't think they're doing anything bad. As is the case with Galini Maxwell, as is the case with these other individuals that are be called being called out to the carpet for their behavior over the years. Real people like Harvey Weinstein, my father, like blaming my mother, in a past episode discussing almost insinuating that my mother deserved to be killed or my mother got herself killed. You know, it's always someone else's fault, but their own, they're always blamed casting and gaslighting and you baby feel that you did this to me. So therefore, I, I had to react, I had to do I, you dropped an egg on the floor, so I had to beat the living shit out of you. Like, it's always they use these very miniscule behaviors to really justify their overt and complete Just destruction. And that's just the way of the Narcissus. So for me, trying to reconcile that has taken a lifetime. And I'm still doing it every day, I just try not to repeat those behaviors that I've seen in my father, I tried to learn from them and explore that, but discuss them as I do this program as I have done to the movie. I really do and, and I'm in talk therapy, too, I discuss these things with my therapist on a weekly basis, I use an app where I get my therapy from, and I talked to this individual every week and I we discuss these things I'm amongst other things, mostly my robot, I failed romantic relationships. That's pretty much what we talked about. But we also talked about my father and my childhood. But you know, but in all seriousness, you know, it's it takes a lifetime of work, it really is just doing the work. And it really is just just showing up being present and saying, Okay, I'm not going to be this individual. And I'm not gonna let these individuals change me, I'm not going to let their absolutely abhorrent behavior, change the person, I am at the fundamental core of who I am and what I stand for in this world, and the bar that I want to leave on this world, I'm not going to let them do that. And that is the true definition of self empowerment, of empowering yourself through these traumatic circumstances. And coming out the other side. You got your cuts, you got your bruises, scrapes, you know, maybe broke a bone or two, but she's survived. And kudos to those who have survived the chaos of Annie of Jeffrey Epstein and Glee Maxwell, to those who say, who survived sexual assault and other ways or to the victims of predatory behavior. To those of you who have survived murder, to those of us survived all of these horrible circumstances that are challenging in your life. I am here for all that to say you are loved, you are wonderful, and you're deserving of love. And I have a hard time telling myself that. As I said, I talked to my therapist every week about these all of these constantly failed romantic relationship what I do wrong here what I do wrong there, you know, whatever. We all have our thing, but understand that you are capable of love that you are worthy of love that you are able to receive love, you are not too damaged to receive love. You gotta be open to all of it. It is easier said than done. Absolutely. Absolutely. Easier said than done. But it is a lifetime's worth of work. But doing the work and sharing that work with others is

excellent, exponentially rewarding as it is for be on this program. But you know what, that's what I think I want to hear what you guys think and I like to take a survey right now for you guys and there's gonna be a survey link in the show notes about today's about what kind of content you guys would like to see from B for this program. What things really resonate with you is it when I talk about things like I did today and my own personal experiences and sort of rapping about what's going on in popular culture at the moment right and and true crime is when I read my father's letters and share those experiences or talk about my childhood and going through the murder and and the investigation and the trial and growing up in the shadows of the narcissist and in the shadows of a murderer and being judged and looked about that. Still get judged for that by the way. Still people go oh, well I don't know is that was a murderer came up last week as a matter of fact came up last week. Oh, can you trust that guy? He's a little. I don't know. I don't know. He talks about a lot of that stuff. He's related. I mean, We're humans. We're judgey we are a video David for sure. And so anyways, what materials really speak to you guys because at the end of the day, I do this program for me it is a great way for me to reconcile my trauma and to share the story of my experiences with you guys, my audience, but again, it is all about you. And I want to give you the content or resonates most with you guys as my audience. So on that note, I'm Collier Landry, and this is Moving Past Murder. Thanks y'all.

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