• Collier Landry

Boyle Murder Trial Judge Tells All! Interview with Hon. James Henson - Part 1

Part 1 of 2: An Interview with retired Richland County Common Pleas Court Judge, the Honorable James HensonRevisiting the past is never easy, especially when history is marred by the traumatic experience of having your father murder your mother. However, it can also yield valuable insight and lead to reconciliation and healing.


In this special two-part episode of Moving Past Murder, host Collier Landry reunites with the judge from his father's murder trial. Now retired after serving over 35 years as seated judge of Richland County Common Pleas Court, the Honorable James Henson, has seen many court cases come and go. However, one trial stands above them all, forever in the annals of Richland County and Central Ohio history.


The Boyle murder trial was a month-long media sensation that gripped not only the city of Mansfield but the entire tri-state area surrounding Ohio and even national media coverage. The trial was televised daily, and eager citizens rushed home to huddle around their television screens to keep up with the "real-life soap opera."


Being the prosecution's star witness, Collier was never allowed to watch the trial. As an adult, he never really cared to. In this rare interview, Collier learns stunning new information from Judge Henson, including:


  • Collier learns that his father rented a cold-storage facility to store his mother's body while he prepared her grave beneath the basement floor of his new home in Erie, PA.

  • His father lied about his previous medical career and educational history to get into private practice when his family moved to Mansfield, OH

  • The episode ends on a cliffhanger as Judge Henson shares a disturbing story with Collier.

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Full Transcript is Below:


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MPM Episode #54 - Hon. James Henson


Hon. James Henson: [00:00:00] Right.

Collier Landry: When I enter the courtroom, a child coming in to testify against his father. When

Hon. James Henson: youngsters come into courtroom, the judge is charged with a higher duty than it would with an adult, honestly, myself as, as your protector. And of course, if. Person's [00:00:30] testifying about, uh, something involving their family. You know, the people that would support them would be on their side are not involved.

So I, as the court, as the judge represent the entire system, and at that point, you've got to be very careful to, to make sure that the child is. Booted around in a courtroom. And, uh, you get to tell your story, your [00:01:00] story, the truth, as you said,

Testimony continued today in the most notorious criminal trial in Richland county history. Dr. John Boyle is accused of killing his wife, Noreen and burying her body in the basement of his new home in Erie, Pennsylvania. The 12

Collier Landry: year old son finally took the stand. As I heard a scream, I heard a THD

Hon. James Henson: was about

Collier Landry: this loud.

We, the jury find the defendant guilty when I was 12 years old, my testimony sent my father to prison for murdering [00:01:30] my. This podcast serves as a type of therapy and reconciliation for myself. And it is my hope that it helps anyone who has experienced deception, betrayal, and dark trauma. I'm call your Landry and this is moving past murder.

Hey movers. Welcome back to another episode of moving past murder. I'm your host. Collier Landry and what's going on. What's up. What's going on every. I have quite [00:02:00] possibly one of my favorite episodes, actually two, because this is gonna be a two part episode. I was recently back in Mansfield, Ohio, as you know, from maybe last week's episode and, uh, which is my hometown, where I'm from where my mother's murder happened, where all of this wonderful things that have generated that under the Genesis of this podcast that are the Genesis of my film of murder Mansfield, yada, yada Mansfield, Mansfield, get it.

I was back there and I reconnected with some people, some. And one of the people that I [00:02:30] reconnected with is the judge from my father's trial. Now truth be told, I have not seen this man in probably. A good, almost 25 years. The last time I saw him, ironically, was I was selling him a pair of roller blades when I worked at the Ontario playing against sports that was a long time ago.

And I used to teach customers how to roller blade. I actually was a certified rollerblading instructor for those of you that know, didn't know that. And [00:03:00] why would you know that? Because that is a random detail of my life. . So anyways, I reconnected with him and he has spinned. Whoever since I have, you know, ever since I made the film, I believe we try to connect with him.

And, uh, you know, he is somebody who I've, I've really wanted to reconnect with in my life just to ask him some questions. Here's the deal. I've never watched the trial. I've never read the trial. I don't know what goes on in it. I have a book of newspaper clippings over my shoulder here [00:03:30] that I actually use to create the film, a murder of Mansfield.

And I don't even know what those trial clippings say. It's wild. I know it's hard to believe. But, yeah, I don't know a lot about it. So he really helped me fill in the blanks on some stuff that I didn't know everyone on. Uh, it's pretty wild. So I can't wait for you guys to hear the episode, but first I wanna get to this week's listener, shout out, which is from R just simply R on YouTube.

He commented on my video, uh, about my father. [00:04:00] It was a letter from my father saying my mother was involved in Chinese baby selling and pedophile ring. I think Chinese gold smuggling like all kinds of weird wacky nonsense. And he writes Collier, this is what I have found. What's the difference between a fairytale and a sea story.

The difference between a fairytale and a sea story is a fairy tale begins with once upon a time and ends with, and they lived happily ever after the sea story begins. This [00:04:30] is no shit and ends with it's been screwed up ever since well, are, I don't really know what you're getting at. Am I the part of a fairytale or a sea story?

I don't know which, um, I think it's probably the sea story. I don't know. Um, all I would have to say is that, um, this circumstance could be viewed as a C story, but. It could [00:05:00] also be viewed as a fairytale because here's the thing. And I know this sounds cheesy, and I know I say this a lot on this program, but this is the truth.

I was just, actually, this is, this is something I was just discussing yesterday with Amanda Knox. Yes, the Amanda Knox, I think she was arrested in 2007, wrongfully convicted for the murder of her. It was exonerated. They tried to retry her again. She was finally exonerated because overwhelming evidence after they caught the guy that did it, by the way she was tried after they caught the guy who actually killed the [00:05:30] roommate and went to prison nonsense.

But one of the things that her and I were discussing with Tara new on our new podcast, survivor squad, she said something to me that really rang true with myself and Tara. And she said she considers herself to be really, really lucky, lucky that she went through the circumstances that she went. And lucky that she was able to make the most out of it, lucky that she had his family to support her and lead her through the trauma.

And she's [00:06:00] lived happily ever after. And now she has a new child she's married, she's living a wonderful life. I would say the same thing. Like I would say that what may have started as a fairy tale then looked like it was becoming a sea story. And was very rocking on and on very tumultuous and treacherous sea for a very long time.

But I will say at this point in my life, despite a few things I like to change, but I would say for the most part, [00:06:30] I feel like this is ending in a fairytale. That might sound hokey that miles sound cheesy, but to be honest with you, it is really how I feel. I lived a, I live a very charmed life in a way that I am grateful for what I have every day.

And I'm grateful that I've learned. I've been able to learn lessons that I have in my life and share those lessons with you guys. And share my process of going through these extraordinary circumstances, this [00:07:00] unspeakable trauma and coming out, you know, fairly unscathed I'm I definitely have quite a few bumps and bruises on me, but I'm pretty much unscathed by life.

I don't, I'm not cynical. I mean, I get down. I was down today. I had some, I had some bad news coming last week and, and it's just kind of keep snowballing, but like, I just keep everything. In my life and because I really do at the end of the day, feel very blessed and grateful and fortunate, lucky, really that I'm able to share my story with you guys in this [00:07:30] medium, in this format.

Speaking of, uh, if you are watching on YouTube, please click the like and subscribe buttons. It helps with the algorithm. Uh, if you are listening, please, you know, tell all your. Download via apple podcast, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast from. And if you wouldn't mind, please spreading the word about the show because it keeps growing and growing every single week.

I wanna give a special shout out to those of you that are supporting me on Patreon. I am uploading a bunch of new content on Patreon. I'm doing monthly meet and greets with all the patrons on there. It's a really cool thing. [00:08:00] It really helps support the program. patreon.com/callier Landry. Your contributions go to support this program.

They keep the lights on. They keep me doing what I'm doing to share this content with you and to develop content and get great guests like judge James Henson on the program. This is part one of a two part interview with the honorable James henss. Judge Henson, I wanna say, thank you so much for joining me on the program.

And obviously there's been, it's been [00:08:30] many years since I've seen you. I wanted to, to, to sort of talk to you about my father's trial and the case in general in Mansfield and what, um, you know, I, I wanna talk a little bit about that. So what was your position in the. I

Hon. James Henson: was trial judge, essentially a judge is a referee in it and a trial like that, the prosecutor of defense attorneys and the people involved are the, uh, actors.

And I just [00:09:00] keep it even .

Collier Landry: And so this was Richon county, common police court, right?

Hon. James Henson: Richon county common police court. I was the longest serving Richmond county companies church in history and I'm only 80 .

Collier Landry: Wow. So when did you officially.

Hon. James Henson: 2014. And then I worked a year, another year doing visiting judge. Uh, my term wasn't up until 16, but I retired two years early.

Uh, judge Robinson took my place [00:09:30] and, uh, he's doing a great job, but I, I came back, came back for a year visiting judge, you know, and

Collier Landry: so at. So at the time, so we're in 1990 and. . I was obviously so young. Right. And I, I didn't really know. I didn't really understand what, what was going on. As far as an adult. I just knew that my father had murdered my mother mm-hmm and obviously Dave mess [00:10:00] Moore believed me that my mother wasn't just a regular missing person who, who just took off, but that's something had happened that my father had did something.

Um, talk to me about, because my father was a doctor. I. My understanding is, you know, I made the film, a murder in Mansfield, and I saw the spectacle that had happened. Talk to me about the spectacle of the trial and how big it was for Richland county.

Hon. James Henson: It was the biggest, uh, [00:10:30] Trial event in our history that I'm aware of, uh, people remembered back in 1953 when a husband and wife were, uh, executed after trial.

And it says we haven't anything like this since then. And that was old folks talking obviously, uh, every day the courtroom was full a hundred people in the courtroom, 250, uh, up in the hallway. We had a feed for them so that they could. They could listen in [00:11:00] and there were people enthralled by this, uh, trial.

Collier Landry: Why do you think they were so enthralled? Why do you think that there was so much attention given to it

Hon. James Henson: because of the people involved actually, uh, I mean obviously when there's a, uh, a murder case there's families involved and that sort of thing, but this was a case where. Local physician was on trial.

And, uh, he [00:11:30] was well known. Uh, he was very, uh, popular, had many, many class. I think he said he had about 8,800 patients on his, uh, patients list. And people were just intrigued about how this could happen or how it happened, why it happened. And they were there every day and it. Publicity all over the country and all over the world.

I got a call from, from Rome, Italy saying, you know, Hey, [00:12:00] I saw you on TV. Well, I got a call from, uh, Phoenix, Arizona. Hey, good to see you. You know, that got that sort of thing. It got a lot of coverage, big time.

Collier Landry: So just, just the whole, the whole experience of my father being a doctor and just people not quite understanding because.

You know, I was obviously a witness and I was pretty isolated prior to the trial because of my involvement. Right. [00:12:30] And I didn't, my father had a lot of patients that loved him. So was there a sort of. A divisiveness in the community between people who thought he was guilty and people who thought he was innocent,

Hon. James Henson: I'm not sure you'd call it divisiveness.

There were a lot of people who wanted to believe that he was not guilty, uh, until it was proven beyond any, any doubt. And, uh, once that was proven, [00:13:00] There very, very little feedback from that. It's like, I can't believe that. I, I, I, I know what's true here, but I, I can't believe it, but as far as, uh, uh, devices this in the community, very, very little.

Collier Landry: So it wasn't a polarizing sort of

Hon. James Henson: situation. I didn't get that feeling now. Of course I, I was in trial every day. I didn't go out and talk to people about it. I, I couldn't talk about. Jurors couldn't talk about it. So I don't, I [00:13:30] don't believe I have felt any sense of polarization.

Collier Landry: What was one of the things that stood out to you in the trial with, you know, there are a lot of people since I made the film, there are still a lot of people that believe he's innocent. And they would approach me at screenings and say, oh, I'm really glad that your father got to tell you his side of the story.

And, [00:14:00] and I, and, and, and got to tell you the truth. You got to hear the truth, and I'm thinking to myself, did we watch the same movie? Did we listen to the same person? Why do you think it is such a disbelief? Is it because my father was a doctor and there, it was a heal.

Hon. James Henson: I didn't understand your question.

Collier Landry: Well, I guess what I'm wondering is why would it be hard for people to come to grips with him being guilty?

Hon. James Henson: This [00:14:30] trial, this case was played up every day in the newspaper on radio and the local television station and people were. I wouldn't say INFR, but they were exceptionally interested in, it was a spectacle.

You know, it was a, it was the best show in town and people. I really, and, uh, it reminded me. Later of the OJ Simpson [00:15:00] task on TV, you know, made for TV sexually. Uh, so people are intrigued with what they don't understand and don't know. And, uh, literally every day, thousands of people in, in Richmond county tuned in to the, uh, coverage that was on, on.

And, uh, they, they may have talked among themselves, but they didn't talk to Pete because I [00:15:30] didn't talk to them. So I don't know. Uh, you know, I heard things from people say, can you believe that? I said, wait a minute, I'm sitting there in trial. You know, I can't tell you whether or not I believe it. But, uh, they just, uh, intrigued, I guess, really much intrigued what was going on

Collier Landry: now.

When, when I entered the courtroom, what was, what [00:16:00] was that like for you? A child coming in to testify against his father. When

Hon. James Henson: youngsters come into courtroom, the judges charged with a higher duty than it would with a, a adult. I see myself as, as your protector. And of course, if the person who's testifying about, uh, something involving their family, you know, the people that would support them would be on their side [00:16:30] are not involved.

So I, as the court, as the judge represent the entire system, and at that point, you've got to be very careful to, to make sure that this child is done booted around in a courtroom and. And that you get to tell your story, your story, the truth, as you see it. And, uh, we had quite a bit of discussion off the record.

You know, here we're gonna have a [00:17:00] young young man come in and testify and he's gonna be treated. He is not gonna be treated poorly by anybody. And, uh, everybody agreed. That's that's that's fine. And the attorneys were very, uh, Responsive to that.

Collier Landry: Did you be my father's defense attorneys? I'm sorry. You mean my father's defense attorneys as well as the prosecution?

Hon. James Henson: Yes. Yes. Robinson attorneys, Robinson, Whitney. And they were, [00:17:30] they both obviously had children and, uh, play up. They treated you, they treated you as well as they possibly could have. And they, they did a good job.

Collier Landry: What do you think as you're listening to me, and as you're listening to my story unfold on the witness stand, did you, as you know, obviously there was a jury of how many, how many members were on the jury?

Hon. James Henson: [00:18:00] 16, 12 people on the jury, four alternates in case somebody has stepped down. And, uh, and that happened often. But in this case, after 19 days of trial, we still had 16 people. Nobody wanted leave for any reason. that's really true.

Collier Landry: Do you ultimately think now I remember having discussions with James Mayer Jr.

Who was a prosecutor and I believe was, uh, Jerry alt was the assistant [00:18:30] da. And I remember they were, it was optional for me to. they had made it clear to me that I didn't have to do that. Mm-hmm but I was not having that. I wanted to testify because I was so adamant about getting justice for my mother mm-hmm

What was it in your mind? How is the trial going before I [00:19:00] testified?

Hon. James Henson: Judge Jim mayor let the, that was the prosecutor and he's very methodical, very plotting. And it was dragging on really dragging on, but that's the way that's his, his manner, uh, his way of doing things. Um, we were proceeding along and I don't remember where you were in the sequence of the, all the witnesses, but I know there's a great deal of interest and, [00:19:30] uh, concern for you on the.

And, uh, you came across very well. You came across as, uh, not matter of factly, but just plainly telling the truth as you knew it to be. It was a, it was you, you were very impressive actually, uh, with the, uh, with the jurors and with the public and with me, cuz you sat there as literally a child. In the [00:20:00] spotlight and you didn't, you weren't floored or any, any, uh, weren't putting on the show.

You were very methodical, very, uh, matter of fact. And, uh, that was very impressive. I were, I think, 11 year old.

Collier Landry: Yeah, I was, well, I had just turned 12, so I was pretty, oh, you 12 pretty. Oh, well, yeah, I was, I had just turned, you know, it is 11, 12. It doesn't matter at that point. But I think that, I mean, when I testified at the grand jury, I was [00:20:30] 11.

So, you know, I had, I was probably four months into my, you know, 12th birthday. Um, a lot of people. Still to this day will look at my testimony and they keep saying to me what, you know, you were just so good on the witness stand. How were you not coached by the prosecution?

Hon. James Henson: Well, I, I can answer that very quickly.

You didn't need to be coached. Typical 11, 12 year old might have, [00:21:00] might have needed to be coached. Might have been extremely emotional, uh, you know, upset, but you very, uh, not matter of fact, that's, that's, that's too bland. You were just, you're very comfortable up there. You look like you're comfortable on the stand.

You answered every question. Forthrightly I thought, and I was very impressive to, uh, to jurors and, and to the public. They were surprised that, uh, 11, 12 year old youngster could [00:21:30] go through that. UN not unscathed. Never. You never get UN STH, but UN

not, you didn't become discombobulated even at all. And that's, uh, that's very unusual for an adult. And for a 12 year old boy, that's very, that's quite remarkable.

Collier Landry: Yeah. I, I was terrified by the way. I [00:22:00] remember. Yeah, go ahead.

Hon. James Henson: You had to be, you didn't know what was gonna happen up there. That's what I was impressive about it. You came up and sat down and promised to tell the truth and bid it. Somebody might say, oh, that was very matter of fact. That's all, that's almost a Compli.

You know, just, it was a, I was asked questions. I answered them that that's, that's what you're up there to do. You didn't try to, uh, skirt questions. You didn't [00:22:30] try to, uh, to, uh, direct the testimony in any way you were asked question, you're answering question and you kind of just said back, like,

Collier Landry: what's next?

Yeah. I was at least trying not to be proative that's for sure. um, You know, one of the things that struck me is I get a lot of questions. People said to me, did your father look at you in the courtroom? And I said, [00:23:00] no, he wouldn't make eye contact with me. I stared at him, but he wouldn't look at me. He kept, you know, writing notes and doing one of those things.

What. You know, obviously you are there to be sort of, as you said, the adjudicator of the, of the circus, if you will, of what's going on. But what was one of the things that struck you about my father when he got on the [00:23:30] witness stand as a judge,

Hon. James Henson: the fact that he got on the stand, his attorneys came to the bitch and.

Said we have advised him not to testify. So we brought your data up and I said, you, your attorneys have indicated you have no duty to testify. You don't have anything to prove here. And your attorneys are a great deal. Legal experience are [00:24:00] saying it won't be in your best interest to testify. But he said, no, I want tell, I wanna testify.

And again, I warned him specifically, anything you say up there, whatever you say up there is gonna be viewed by everybody review by everybody. If you say anything that's not does doesn't make sense to me regardless. They're gonna say, say, what's he trying to pull here? You know, we talked at the bench for quite a while before he test.[00:24:30]

And he insisted he test and the attorneys went on on the record again, saying we're, we're not objecting. You testify. We're advising him not to, it will not be in his best interest to testify. And he, he, he's just, I may, I think a little bit, I think his ego kind of came into it a little bit. I think he almost had to.

And, and, and he should not have, now I'm being judgemental. He did not [00:25:00] help himself at all the testimony.

Collier Landry: Do you think that ultimately his testimony on his behalf is what on top of my testimony probably sealed his fate or what was it?

Hon. James Henson: His testimony was. I won't say outrageous, but it wasn't reasonable. And, uh, we had the woman, the realtor had [00:25:30] looked into the house and seen her, the jerk stacked up.

She had tested, she had talked to your dad downtown in, in Erie where he told her he was going ahead with this idea of putting a basketball cart in the base. And she said you can't do that. She saw I'm all covered with sum cement dust. He said, what are you doing? She, he said, I'm going ahead with that project.

Cause I think, I think that's a good idea. And of course she said they won't work [00:26:00] because the water is only 17 inches below the floor here. And the ceiling's only seven foot and a half high. She was six one, the, the realtor was six one. She just, I could reach up and touch the. The ceiling in the basement and he was talking about raising it or lowering it so he could play basketball, put a hoop in his 10 feet high.

And, uh, it was just, and she just said it didn't make any sense at all. And, uh, he is adamant he was gonna put a [00:26:30] basketball court out there.

Collier Landry: See, you know, I've never really watched the trial. So when you're telling me this, I had no idea. I had no idea that the ceiling was so low. I had no idea. I mean, so now it sounds completely outrageous to me.

Yes. That because you have to have at least probably 15, 16 feet of clearance at a minimum to put [00:27:00] AALL hoop in there

Hon. James Henson: at least, you know, something else about his testimony that really was outrageous. He testified that he had nothing to do with placing your mother in the floor. And then with Jim mayor going on, he says, it must have be that somebody after I put in this new cabinets down there, somebody must have pulled those out of there and then pull that rag, carpeting house and [00:27:30] buried her down there.

And. And then cover it all back up without, without pulling into that grass carpet. And you can't, you can't pull it up at all. They testified that somebody must have done that because he didn't, he didn't certainly did do it. And the juror are sitting there looking at him like, wait a minute. That makes no sense at all.

And I think that's where I'm saying he shouldn't have testified cuz he was sitting there, sitting there saying [00:28:00] things that totally unreasonable. And the jury, one of the jurors kind of went just kind of chat. He, he looked at her like you don't believe me. And she looked at him like OHEY and it was really interesting.

I mean, he was, he, he, somehow somewhere along the line, he kind of realized that [00:28:30] I shouldn't be sitting here, but he'd gone too far.

Collier Landry: How many days did he testify? Was it two? I know I testified. It was like a day. It was on,

Hon. James Henson: I wouldn't imagine it was a day. I do not remember. It was 32 years ago. 31 years ago.

Of course. I don't remember, but I know he was on the stand quiet while. And, uh, I think the case went on several days, some days after that, but the testimony was in at that time. [00:29:00]

Collier Landry: Yeah. He testified, he testified after me. I know mm-hmm

Hon. James Henson: and, and another thing is highlight of the trial was, was when Sherry. It took the stand.

And Jamira said you were, what? Nine months pregnant at the time? She said I was, and, and you were a big hurry to, to get this place lined up so you could bring your, have your child there and, and that's right. That's, that's absolutely right. He said, [00:29:30] did, did you see any preparation made for. Were there any baby beds there, was there any furniture at all?

Did you see any of, of Dr. Boyle's clothing there? And all of a sudden she looks up and she looks at him and says you rotten son of a bitch. And all of a sudden it was obvious that that was the first time she didn't believe him really, [00:30:00] really? That actually happened. Right. I'm four feet from. And, and of course he stepped over there looking down and

he had made no preparations for them to move over there. And the idea was that they're gonna get over and move in right away. Cause she was nine months pregnant. And uh, he, she really came out right then that he had no, no intention whatsoever to live in that house.[00:30:30]

Collier Landry: Wow. Wow. So you're so really in, so , that was Sherry Campbell. Yeah. And so she realized right then and there that she had maybe been had,

Hon. James Henson: she looked at him and with her words, she said, you liked to be, you like to be, and. Her testimony was in at that point. And he was, uh,[00:31:00]

he had no answer for it. Not no answer whatsoever. And it was, uh, it was a, I hate to say it this way, but it was a very trying moment. It was a highlight of the trial, right. Uh, because she had to that point, she had believed everything he'd ever told her. He was gonna marry her, take care of the baby, do all that sort of thing, you know?[00:31:30]

And all of a sudden she realized that he had no intention to do that and made no preparations for that once at all. And, uh, that was a, that was a very high or low moment in the trial, depending on how you look at it.

Collier Landry: I, I get a lot, I tried to have Sherry in my documentary to tell her side of the story.

She ultimately obviously refused. She's not in it, uh, because I wanted to give her. A lot of [00:32:00] people blame her and tried to say that she was involved in the murder. Mm-hmm it happened because of her, you know, I had some anger growing up, I think, which was understandable and a lot of confusion. But do you really, do you really feel that, especially in a moment like that, that she was just another one of his victims?

Yes.

Hon. James Henson: I mean, I made that, I made that very, very quickly, but [00:32:30] very, very much so. Very much so. And of course her testimony and your testimony and other brought out that you were, were victimized when you saw your mother's ring on her finger. And then went back and told mom, you know, that was, that was traumatic.

It was like, uh, you know, she, this girl is, is wearing your ring. [00:33:00] Your, my dad gave your ring to her and I'm sure that hurt your brother so, so much. And I'm sure that when she brought her to him, he realized he had really. He had messed up big time. I don't know if that's had anything to do with what actually finally happened, but I I'm saving the feeling now.

I, I feel it had a great deal to do with what happened.

Collier Landry: [00:33:30] Huh? So a lot of people feel like it was just circumstantial evidence that was against my father. There was nothing, there was no fingerprints. There was no blood. Correct.

Hon. James Henson: You know, almost every case is circumstantial, but circumstantial evidence is as good as what you call real evidence. And oftentimes it's much better.

You're you're [00:34:00] dad said he testified that he, he didn't do anything, but he did rent a jackhammer. He. Jack hammer that floor up. He did put your mother in cold storage for five days, but using his, using his ID.

Collier Landry: Well, I didn't know that he put my mother's body in cold storage. Well,

Hon. James Henson: Hey, she is now [00:34:30] gone. We don't know where she is.

She's gone. And he's over there digging up the floor. And the, the real estate agent went over and saw the stuff stacked up like this on the floor, called a deputy and said, you know, you better get over and take a look. Well, he didn't right away. And then when he got over there, it was watch shirt on the floor.

There was new carpet. [00:35:00] New shelving. And he, he calls her and says, what are you talking about? She says, you think I'm lying to you? He says, no, but there it's just not there. There's there's no dirt on the floor. There's new carpeting, new shelving. The deputy went to the judge. With circumstantial evidence put in everybody's testimony together in Pennsylvania, [00:35:30] they don't grant search warrants on the basis of probable cause they grant search warrants on their basis of reasonable suspicion.

Sure. This all happened before trial and we had brought the judge, the prosecutor brought the judge over from Harry Pennsylvania and testified by court. To the level of proof and, and that sort of thing. And when, and he issues their search warrant, but the police officer, because he didn't see anything with the dirt on floor, that sort of thing.[00:36:00]

The first drillings were done in a driveway. Did you know that? No, I did. First drillings of the search warrant was in the driveway. Nothing was turned up. So he says, well, we've gotta go where she says that and they start drilling down and they pull up that they, they scrape back. Some of this new carpeting is down and then they see new, new [00:36:30] concrete down there.

And so they drill. And body tissue came out. And of course it was, it was, it was a dumb deal at that point. Yeah. But why, why, if he was gonna rent a Jack hammer, why used his driver's license? Identified himself? Was the guy, the Jack hammer. He in the cold storage area, he used his ID, you know, [00:37:00] why did that?

So was the cold

Collier Landry: storage area, like at a hospital, like where you store a body

Hon. James Henson: cold storage in, you can put a whole cow in there. You certainly put 110 pound person in there. But, uh, and he used, he used his own ID, both to rent the jackhammer and to rent the rope, this close storage. You know what I believe you're dead was such a Supreme Eist.[00:37:30]

He didn't think that anybody would ever believe that he would do such a thing as, as. Tell this beautiful woman. And I mean, he's a, he's a very popular in his own mind. He is very popular physician from a very prestigious family in the east. He told that he got his medical training from a [00:38:00] prestigious university.

Well, he got his medical training in the Navy. You, you probably knew that. Yeah, he came, he and your mother came to town under false pretenses. They had stories. She was a member of the Shaline brewing company in Philadelphia. He was from a famous university in the east. His mother was a model. Oh, [00:38:30] broad what I call where they walk out on and do their cool runway model.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. None of which was true. No, I mean, well, my

Collier Landry: grandmother did do some modeling, but yeah, no, I know what you're saying. Oh, she

Hon. James Henson: was the seamstress, you know? Yeah. . Yeah. But, but they told around that she was a very famous model in her younger days and that she did some modeling, but it was a, it was a, and they were [00:39:00] immediately accept.

You know how difficult it is to get a good trained medical doctor to come to Mansfield in the old days. And I talked about the old days back in the thirties, forties and fifties, Mansfield was a booming area. One of the richest counties in the United States, people came there from all over to do business to, to set up their accounting businesses, set up their law offices.

To work [00:39:30] at the hospital today. Almost all the people work at the hospitals. We have more, we have many here are from out of town. I mean, we have Ohio health, Avida Cleveland clinic, Akron children's and it goes on and on and on, but almost to a person, the people who work there. Don't live in Mansfield. I broke a finger two, three years.

No, five, six years ago [00:40:00] went to the, uh, one of the quick, quick stops. Yeah. And they brought a woman, a woman doctor in from Akron to look at my broken finger. Cause there wasn't anybody available. So when Jack Boyle came here claiming to be, you know, well trained in an Eastern university, and of course your mom is gorgeous and they just, they were accepted immediately [00:40:30] in the higher class of the established of the, of the people living in our community, remember a country club and all this sort of thing.

And they were just, they were accepted for what they said. They. Because everybody wanted to compete, we needed.

Did, do you know how much, uh, the people in area had agreed to pay your dad to come over there and work? I think

Collier Landry: it was like $300,000 a year. Well,

Hon. James Henson: it was a hundred first. It was 160, 2,500 [00:41:00] for 16 hours a week. yeah, that's right. He was gonna maintain his office. And work over there. That's what they, he told them over there and they actually signed the contract for 1 62, 5 for 16 hours a week.

That's insane. Well, it's that's was making that money here. of course my theory. And it's all a theory now because it's over that he [00:41:30] thought just Marie, your brother. Barry didn't know. And then all of a said, oh, GE my, my, my children are back in Mansfield. My works back in Mansfield. I know I signed the contract, but I can't, I, I I've gotta go back home and just walk away, leaving her body on the floor.

Collier Landry: So maybe in your, so you're thinking that he would've gotten out of the contract and just left the.

Hon. James Henson: Oh, he, [00:42:00] it was a nice house. It was, it was sold. Would've sold his, that, you know, he bought it quickly and he knew everybody over there, including the real estate woman who sold the house, that it was, it was a, it was a good house looking out on the lake beautiful area.

It was a sellable. Very very movable property. I guess they call it a real estate. He wouldn't have [00:42:30] any problem selling at all. Wow. Yes. That's what the juror said. Callier right. There is what the juror said.

Collier Landry: Wow. There's a lot of layers to this onion.

Hon. James Henson: right. It's a, uh, Right. I thought about telling you, instead of doing the podcast,

Collier Landry: write a book.[00:43:00]

Yeah.

Hon. James Henson: I mean, my God and, or write a whole series of books, it's amazing what happened in that case. And, and, and of course it's still going on cuz he's still in prison. Okay. And there are still people who said, gee, I don't think, I don't think it was proven by satisfaction. I talked to one of the jurors two or three years after the trial and he was still [00:43:30] a little bit upset.

He says, gee, I don't think I could have ever found him guilty if he hadn't have testified. Cause it was circumstantial. He got on the stand and made it very. So very profound actually establishes guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. And he did it to himself. He voluntarily [00:44:00] test right after being told by his attorneys don't do that.

And that's what happened.

Collier Landry: I think at the end of the day, it's exactly what you said. It's hubris. I think that he thought he was smarter than everyone else.

Hon. James Henson: He, he knew it. He smarter, he testified in my court, I think three times before. And he was excellent and, and he was testify in medical S cases. [00:44:30] And he more less said things like you could believe that if you want to, I'm telling you the truth over here, you know?

Well, and the jurors ate it. Because he was a very, very effective witness, but he was a very poor witness when he was talking about his own case. He should not have taken the stand, not ever, but they did now. I'm not saying he wouldn't have been convicted, cuz prosecutor had just a great, great [00:45:00] deal of evidence.

Okay. But like the man said, I don't think I could have found him guilty if he hadn't test. So I, I it's all speculations is what the jury would've done if he hadn't done because he did testify. But, uh, there was a great deal of directs.

Collier Landry: Wow.

Hon. James Henson: That's what the driving, you know, I already pointed out that's exactly what the jury said. They leaned back said, [00:45:30] wow, because they were hearing the story that could not be true. Was true. And they literally said, wow, just like you did.

When they went in the jury room, there was no question in anybody's mind that he was guilty of the crime. And I think it came down to him testifying and saying [00:46:00] things were just so far off base that nobody. Nobody could believe him. He literally believed that because he was saying it, it had to be true.

That's almost the definition of a patho pathological liar. Now I'm not saying he was, but it's it's characteristic. I'm saying it. It's gotta be true.[00:46:30]

Collier Landry: So he believed his own

Hon. James Henson: bullshit. I'm sorry, I hear what you said.

Collier Landry: He, he believed his own bullshit.

Hon. James Henson: Well, Hey, you know what if he had let's let's just pause it. That your mother got pushed around and fell down and she was dead on four. If he had taken her body down around 71 south by Columbus and dumped her body in the ditch,[00:47:00]

come back. He had the cover of his mother being there. The you being there, it would've been a different case. It would've been a very difficult case to bake. It might have been unmakeable. And even if they were able to prove that he's the one who did it, he could say, but here I am, you know, I've got my children here, I've got my mom here and, and yeah, she [00:47:30] fell and hurt herself and I panicked, I didn't know what to do.

So I, I, I dumped her body. I didn't kill her. I didn't hope no. I would do a thing like that. Uh, put yourself in my position here. I'm a I'm, I'm her husband and now she's hurt or dead. And I didn't what to do never had to me before. How would I, how would I, how would I [00:48:00] explain my son by little girl? How do I explain this?

If, if, if she's found here at the house laying on the. And then his, if he, if he had planned this really well, as opposed the way he did, he might himself, he might thought they don't convicted.

Collier Landry: Wow,

Hon. James Henson: [00:48:30] absolutely.

Collier Landry: Wow. Um,

there's so much to it. There's so. Uh, it's interesting when you look at least for me, when I look back and even just hearing what you're telling me, how many things have to fall into place to get a conviction surely. And that's the American justice system is that's. Yeah, it's innocent until [00:49:00] proven guilty mm-hmm and I think that's something that's very unique to our justice system, as flawed as it.

But all of these things, I mean, if you figure I don't testify and he doesn't testify, he probably walks

Hon. James Henson: not with what they had this case. No, they have, they, they had him renting at jackhammer. They had him renting coal storage. They had all this, they had him [00:49:30] telling he was gonna put a basketball court down there.

They had all that evidence. When it was the impossibility, but if he had just not done anything, left her laying on the floor, or if he had taken, dumped her body off of the side of the road somewhere, they wouldn't have had that evidence. They just wouldn't have had that at all role. Did you hear the story that what your little baby sister said to the woman who was [00:50:00] taken care of her?

Collier Landry: So how's that for a cliffhanger, huh? uh, I can't wait to get into next week's episode. And the second part of this episode, where I learn even more stuff about my father and judge Henson's chairs with me more info and, and sort of insight that he gleaned from refereeing, the trial, as he puts it. and. [00:50:30] Sort of more shenanigan as it happened in the courtroom and more, uh, things that he learned about my father and that the jurors learned about my father.

Um, it's gonna be a really cool episode. Uh, this is, you know, a as you guys are listening to the episode, I am literally discovering all these things that he's telling me that I did not know. And we're gonna talk about, uh, even a guy that maybe came up and, and had some, had helped my father to procure some girlfriends, even.

So there's all kinds of [00:51:00] stuff that is coming up in this next episode. So on that note, I'm Collier Landry, and this is Moving Past Murder. Thanks. Y'all

this podcast is made possible by support from listeners, just like. Please subscribe via apple podcast, Spotify audible.

Find us on YouTube, https://www.youtube.com/collierlandry.[00:51:30]

The film A Murder in Mansfield is available on investigation discovery. Discovery plus, and Amazon prime video.

This podcast is a production of don't touch my radio in association with RSA entertainment, please visit https://www.mpmpodcast.com to show your support today.[00:52:00] f

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