My Mom's Birthday-My Dad's Attempt To Manipulate Me Before His Parole Hearing

In this episode of Moving Past Murder, host Collier Landry reflects on how his mother would be turning 77 years young next Wednesday, September 28th. Naturally, this turns his thoughts back to his father, who still remains incarcerated for her murder. After a recent discussion with fellow survivor Terra Newell (of Dirty John fame), Collier realized that over the time his father has been incarcerated, he has spent at least a year of his life in prison.

• After a friend tells Collier about the Netflix documentary "Sins of Our Mother", Collier reflects on his mother would have aged gracefully in her senior years.

• A message via Instagram inspires Collier to share how he moves on with his own trauma, after the messenger saw his film 'A Murder in Mansfield'

• Collier then opens a series of letters from his father from the late 2000's, as he was seeking his first parole hearing and to be released from prison after serving only 21 years for the murder.

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Collier Landry: [00:00:00] I was reflecting on my sort of experience in the incarceration system and in the prison system. And I realized that I have actually over the years, um, in dealing with my father and visiting my father and spending time in the prison and I will. Get to a lot of this. When I talk about making a murder in Mansfield, how I spent time inside the actual prison, working with people [00:00:30] in the video production department, in the prison.

Um, but, uh, I have spent at least a year of my life in prison, not as an inmate, not as a, as a guest of the state, in the sense of that. I, I don't get out after a certain time. I was able to walk away and go home every day, but I spent a year in prison. So, um, I know what I'm talking about and I have seen many people come through those visitation rooms and those [00:01:00] walls.

And, uh, again, the incarceration system in this country is something that we really need to look at.

Testimony continued today in the most notorious criminal trial in Richland county history. Dr. John Boyle is accused of killing his wife, Maureen, and burying her body in the basement of his new home in Erie, Pennsylvania. The 12 year old son finally took the stand. As I heard a scream, I heard a thud was about this loud.

We, the jury find the defendant guilty [00:01:30] when I was 12 years old, my testimony sent my father to prison for murdering my mother. This podcast serves as a type of therapy and reconciliation for myself. And it is my hope that it helps anyone who has experienced deception, betrayal, and dark trauma. I'm Collier Landry, and this is Moving Past Murder.

Hey movers. Welcome back to another episode of moving past murder. I'm your host. Collier Lasndry and [00:02:00] what's going on?! Ugh, never gets old. it really doesn't. I love doing it. Uh, what's going on people happy Friday. And uh, Hey, this is the 56th episode of moving past murder. I can't believe I made it this far.

This is kind of crazy. And we've been on this journey, this very, very, very exciting journey together where I share all these wonderful tidbits about my life. Of being a true crime survivor and also, uh, talking to some really cool [00:02:30] people along the way. And, um, one of those really cool people was, uh, judge James Henson, retired judge of Richland county, common plea court, who I had on the last two episodes.

I did a two parter episode with him and you guys probably heard it cuz judge James Henson was the judge at my father's murder trial. Where I testified for two days against my father and he is still incarcerated to this day. So, uh, [00:03:00] that was interesting. And I found, you know, I got a lot of comments, a lot of questions, obviously.

Uh, I just did an AMA on my Patreon on this last Tuesday, the 20th, a lot of people asking me, you know, wow. Even after all these years, you are. Finding out things that you didn't know happened. And, and it, didn't not only with the case itself, but also with shit that my father pulled. [00:03:30] And, um, yeah, that's very true.

It is one of those, uh, I would say that , I would say that, uh, what has happened in my life, my very young life, uh, is just a gift that keeps on giving. What can I say? Um, but no, in all seriousness, it was. That was an, an interesting last couple episodes for me, because again, I found out things like my father rented a cold storage unit to put my mother, my mother's body in, um, while he was digging [00:04:00] her grave underneath the house.

I mean, just all kinds of stuff. It's just,

I, you know, I used to, as I ask my father in the film of murder Mansfield, do you think you're a sociopath? Um, you know, I think also there are elements of what he did, that there are elements of psychopathy, right? I'm pretty convinced of that, uh, based upon his behavior. And Hey, look, I was on Dr. Phil and Dr.

Phil told me. [00:04:30] This man's a psychopath. So there you go. He heard it from Dr. Phil. He, he knows his stuff. Right. But no, in all seriousness, it got me really thinking. And, and also, uh, this coming Wednesday, September 28th would be my mother's birthday. She would've been 77. And, uh, so this brings up a lot of things for me.

And it also, you know, again, After talking to the judge and who I hadn't spoken to really for at least 20 years, but [00:05:00] spoken to about the case really ever actually. And, um, I, uh, man, the depths of the psychopathy that. He, um, that my father exuded, I'm really starting to see a pattern as I hear more and more stories.

And I'm sure it's not gonna be alone because I have all kinds of stuff that I've trudged up over the last. I just recently went back to Ohio about a month ago and, uh, you know, [00:05:30] I trudged up some more wonderful things that I'm gonna be sharing on the program. Um, . It's just, it is the gift that keeps on giving.

That's all I gotta say. Um, but, uh, yeah, reflecting on my mother and there will be another episode about this, but reflecting on my mother and, um, you know, what it would've been like to know her as she aged gracefully into her late seventies. Um, would she even still be, here is a question that goes through my head.

I mean, obviously she's not here anymore, but, um, at [00:06:00] least not in the physical sense. And, um, I definitely think, uh, think about that a lot. And then I, of course, I, you know, naturally I think segue into my own mortality question, my own mortality, you know, it's just a rabbit hole that just keep going down.

But anyways, back to this Patreon meet and greet that I had, and it was asked me anything AMA session somebody had asked me about, uh, if I had seen sins of our mother. On Netflix, which is a Netflix documentary about Lori Vallow and her family and Lori Vallow for you guys can check [00:06:30] out the film and I'm not really gonna get too much into it, but basically she got, um, she.

Had, uh, three children, one of 'em was a little older than the others. And, um, got hooked up with this guy who wrote a bunch of books. They were involved with the church of latter day saints, uh, um, Mormons. And not that there's, I am not a religious person, but, and I don't subscribe to religion, but, uh, you know, to each his own.

So I'm not here to bastardize the church in any way, but, uh, this person, you know, [00:07:00] seemed to think that they were. A very prophetic figure to say the least, and we're gonna start a new Jerusalem. And it was where they lived. And I think they were in Colorado or something or Utah, Colorado. I don't know the some state in the mountain time zone that's for sure.

Um, but, uh, yeah, they, um, they. Killed their spouses. And then she ended up, uh, having her children killed in the name of starting this new, [00:07:30] weird lifestyle together and saving the world and that they're gonna be the survivors and, uh, thinking people are zombies and, uh, it just, and her brother was killed too mysteriously.

It's a lot. Uh, the cases are going to trial, um, in 2023. So it'll be interesting to see what happens. But again, this brings me back to just the overall psychopathy and recognizing a lot of parallel traits with my [00:08:00] father. You know what it's like to bury, you know, cuz they bury the kids on the property, on the boyfriend's property.

Like what that looks like, you know, taking the lives of innocent children. And I mean, I just, I can't fathom at myself, but again, this is me just kind of reflecting on this due to what happened, uh, in my circumstances with my father murdering my mother and also, you know, thinking about she would've been 77.

And then you couple that with [00:08:30] also the fact that, um, you know, uh, I see this film because everybody's like, Hey, you should check out this film. And, um, you know, I watched it of course at like two in the morning, which I would not recommend for anyone. Um, I didn't really realize what I was getting into. Uh, I am not a huge, um, I'm not a huge watcher or consumer of true crime, as I've said many times on this program before.

It's just not something that. Into, because my life is a true crime [00:09:00] mystery story. And again, it is a mystery that keeps unfolding because I keep finding out these things about my father in his case and all this stuff, like when I talk to the judge. Right. So, um, yeah, just a lot to reflect on, but if you have not seen sins of our mother and you were into the true crime, You should check it out, but be worn.

It is really heavy and it is very, very tragic. What happened. I mean, look, all violence and senseless acts of violence, especially when perpetrated on children [00:09:30] and families is inherently tragic. Um, but this one is just really. Because I, they are so diluted in their narcissism and their sociopathy that they think that what they were doing is, is right.

And they were killing zombies and they were, um, going to start this new, I dunno, if you wanna call it a new world order or what they were saving the planet together. I don't, I don't understand it. Ah, but anyways, it was on [00:10:00] my mind. I figured I'd. I want to get into this week's listener message of the week.

And this one comes from Cora hope on Instagram and it reads hi Collier. My name is Cora and I wanted to reach out to you to let you know that finding someone with a personality and heart like yours is few and far between I finished watching your Hulu series and I wanted to express how truly empathetic I am towards you in the end.

The way you spoke to your dad was courageous [00:10:30] and moving. Not a lot of people have the type of strength to question people to that level or even bluntly ask. If he thinks he's a sociopath while I have never had to go through a trauma as serious as murder, I've been put in situations like that over the course of my life and has found myself facing people the same way you.

Thank you for showing me that the way that I approach situations is okay and wanting to help those who have hurt us is not abnormal. All the best to you. [00:11:00] Kindly Quora. Um, Cora, thank you so much for reaching out and, um, your message is really sweet. And, um, so thank you for that. Uh, showing her the, that the way you approach situations is okay.

And wanting to help those who have heard us is not abnormal. And honestly, like. Cora, that is sort of the fundamental core of what I sort of get into a lot in my life when I work [00:11:30] with people or when I do this program or I speak or what have you. And I, um, you know, I think the biggest thing in this situation like this is you cannot let these people change.

You. Because they change you, they win. Right. And ultimately it's not about like winning or losing. It's not like a zero sum game, but what it is is when somebody is so egregious and is so destructive in your [00:12:00] life. I mean, I guess, you know, when I was talking to the judge, In these last two episodes. One of the things that I realized as I was talking to him is that I gave my father multiple opportunities to come clean about murdering my mother.

Not only did I do that, you know, in court, but you know, over the years in building a relationship with him that led up to making a murder in Mansfield, but also then ultimately in a murder in Mansfield. Itself. [00:12:30] When I, I offer him the opportunity to share the truth to come clean and he has yet another story and another story and another story.

And, you know, if you haven't seen the film, you should watch it. It's fantastic. Or, I mean, I, I think it's fantastic. I think a lot of people think it's fantastic. I don't mean toot my own horn, but yeah, it's a really powerful film. It's a very powerful. Um, I hate my haircut in it. I'll just say that for the record.

I hate my haircut. Um, but whatever , that's not what it's about. Uh, but yeah, I think [00:13:00] you can glean a lot of, um, a lot of insight from, in dealing with people who have injured. You so have been so egregious and so destructive in your life. Just trying to have that grace and sort of poise to. Just always give them one more opportunity and look that doesn't mean you let them walk all over you either.

That just means that you take you just[00:13:30]

it's your life. It's not theirs. and the more you let them suck you into their bullshit, or you let them suck you into their world or, or allow them to manipulate you without taking a sand and saying enough is enough. Like that's when it really starts to affect you taking a stand, asking the hard and tough questions and giving them the opportunity to answer those.

Like the only, the only feeling that you can [00:14:00] get out of doing that is holding your head high. So I don't know if she was asking for my advice, Cora, but, um, if you were asking for my advice I don't think so. I think you were just offering a commentary on it, but at the end of the day, yeah. It's it is. You gotta do it for you.

And as I talked about with a judge, you know, even with forgiveness, you've gotta, you, you have to. Forgiveness is not about them. It's about you. You've gotta just let go and just be like, you know, [00:14:30] this is, and it's not easy. I mean, I'm sitting here saying this behind a microphone in front of a camera saying, okay.

Yeah, this is, yeah, it's great. It's it's not great. It's horrible. It sucks. don't get it twisted kids, but at the end of the day, I mean, you just have to get on with your life. I mean, you can either do that or you can be consumed. I never wanted to be consumed by it. I mean, I'm not without my fault. I got plenty of them, but, um, [00:15:00] I am at the end of the day, really glad that I was, you know, two, nine owned self be true as the bar wrote.

Right. Um, okay. So getting to this week's, uh, this week's episode, so. Um, I'm reflecting on the fact that my mother would turn 77 next Wednesday, September 28th, actually fun fact, my both myself and, um, my mother are born on the 28th. I am born on February 28th. She is born in August or sorry, September 28th.

[00:15:30] And the dog that I had that I never got to see after I was yanked out of my family home on January 24th, 19. Gowdy had a birthday on August 28th. So my dog my, my, uh, my mother and myself all had birthdays on the 28th and then she would always joke. And then your father was born on May 1st. So there you go.

he was the apparent black sheep from jump. Uh, okay. But speaking of that, uh, [00:16:00] that very intriguing, interesting gentleman behind, uh, Four walls of iron in the iron house. Uh, let's get to a letter from prison and, um, I'm gonna pull one. Okay. That one let's see here. So for those of you that are watching on YouTube, which by the way, if you're watching on YouTube, please like, and subscribe, it helps with the algorithm, please, if you can.

And for those of you, you listening on apple podcasts, Spotify, please subscribe to this program. All of your downloads, really help [00:16:30] get the word out, spread the word, share with your friends. Uh, if you're enjoying the program, please give me great reviews. On your favorite podcast app, whether that's apple, Spotify, and, um, I appreciate all of it.

I really do. Oh, look, here's a photograph that I found on my father. So for those of you watching on YouTube, I'll just hold this up so you can see. So my father is in front of a background sitting on a chair, a background of an all snowy winters day. I'm sure it says something on the back. Oh, it says dock boil on the back [00:17:00] two, 2009.

So that was from February, 2009. So that was just kind of floating out here with these letters. So I'm gonna pull one, let's see here. I'm always trying to like, look at the addresses that are on the envelopes too, because that sort of tells me like, Hey, where was I living in California at the time? And I've been in officially now in California.

Well, I'm sorry, officially now in Los Angeles, almost 20 years, which is wild to me. Um, But I'm so glad that I moved out [00:17:30] here for many reasons. Uh, the least of which is, uh, isn't, uh, the weather that's for sure. Um, because I love it out here. Um, alright, let me see here. I'm going to poll well, I got a couple.

Yeah, it was all. Oh, this one was from, oh, okay. This is interesting. All right. So, um, this is when I was living in Hollywood. Let me make sure there's something in here. And again, it's just for you guys to know, um, this is the first time I'm looking at these since, whenever I [00:18:00] opened them the first time. So some of these are 20, 30 years old.

Some of them, these are, you know, a, a decade old. It just depends. So I think that was just a. Sheet I found, uh, recently also, which I'm gonna dive into. Um, my father wrote a like dissertation or master's thesis on, um, for getting his masters of divinity in, um, in, uh, prison. He did this whole thing and he said [00:18:30] it to me and it is, this is weird.

This is like a family and friend. Social. I don't know. This is like a Christmas thing. It's not a real letter. I don't know. It's not a real letter. I want a real letter guys. That's what I want. Let's see here.

So these are all sent around the [00:19:00] late two thousands. So 2008, 2009. I'm really gonna put my glasses on. My father wrote this one by hand Christmas day, 2009. Okay. So obviously that's where that little photograph that I just popped out of him sitting in front of a snowy white background in the prison photo area.

Uh, so that's probably part of this letter, so, okay. Was we have this, uh, him sitting in front of a yeah. Snowy white background says doc boy, 2009. Oh. Graduation opportunities [00:19:30] in pork production. March 14th, 2009. I don't know what this is. Okay. There was an agenda. So my father graduated. Yeah, no, this is no joke.

Okay. Dead ass. Seriously. Um, this says graduation opportunities in pork production, March 10th, 2009 in [00:20:00] this, on. Is a, a graduation like invite or agenda or whatever it is. And it's yeah, it's got keynote speaker w Randall brown, national pork board. Remarks, Maggie bright, uh, uh, bright Bitler, Warren warden, Jason bun, bunting, deputy warden, who I met, um, very cool guy, um, [00:20:30] acknowledgements.

And my father is one of the graduates on here, loves of other people listed. So my father, um, graduated a course in opportunities in, in. Poor production. So this is interesting because, so this is sponsored by Purdue university, national pork board, Iowa state university. Um, so this is interesting. So despite my father being incarcerated from murdering my mother, I definitely do [00:21:00] have a lot of feelings about the way that.

Incarceration system is run in this country and I'm not gonna get into that in this conversation, but I am going to get into that later on in the program on another episode, cause I'm gonna start talking to some people about this, about prison reform, about reducing recidivism rates, look crime in the United States.

Really bad right now. It's really bad in Los Angeles. It, you know, [00:21:30] it's obviously a big city, but it's kind, it's worse than it normally was and blame it on the pandemic, blaming on economic and socioeconomic opportunities for people. What have you? I don't know. It's um, but. You know, our incarceration system really needs to be addressed in this country.

That is my opinion. And look for those of you that are listening, you have to understand that I just actually, the other day was thinking about, because I'm doing another podcast, uh, that I've started with my dear friend, Tara renewal. Who is famous from, [00:22:00] uh, the dirty John series. She is the one who ended dirty John Han's life.

When he came after her with a knife, with the intent on murdering her, and then eventually murdering the rest of her family. He was married to her mother, Deborah renewal. It became the subject of a Wondery podcast done with the LA times called dirty John, which then became a television show and now a series and, and, uh, franchise called dirty John.

But season one, Uh, which started Connie bra, uh, uh, Connie Briton, Eric Bann, [00:22:30] um, Jane smart, uh, Tara was played by Julia Garner. Who's famous from, uh, Ozark, Juno temple was in it, uh, a bunch of people. Uh, it was a fantastic show, but, um, her and I have started a podcast, uh, called the survivor squad and I was reflecting on my sort of experience in the incarceration system and in the prison system.

And I realized. I have actually over the years, um, in dealing with my father and [00:23:00] visiting my father and spending time in the prison. And I will get to a lot of this. When I talk about making a murder in Mansfield, how I spent time inside the actual prison, working with people in the video production department in prison.

Um, but, uh, I have spent at least a year of my. In prison, not as an inmate, not as a, as a guest of the state, in the sense of that. I, I don't get out after a certain time. I was able to walk away and go home every day, [00:23:30] but I've spent a year in prison. So, um, I know what I'm talking about, and I have seen many people come through those visitation rooms and those walls.

And, uh, again, the incarceration system in this country is something that we really need to look at. Specifically to reduce recidivism rates. So people don't go back to prison. And part of that starts with giving opportunities to individuals that are incarcerated. And look, I understand that they're criminals and they've done bad things.

Yes. I get that. I [00:24:00] understand lady justice has tipped the scales and they are , they are incarcerated, but that does not mean that a lot of people are not able to be reformed. You know, a lot of these people will end up as my father would tell me many, many times and many, many letters, and I'm sure I will get into some of those eventually, uh, where you, uh, you know, people learn to when they go to prison, they learn how to become better criminals.

It's basically like going to college for criminals in a lot of ways. Um, I mean, that's a really [00:24:30] weird way to look at it, but it is actually very true. And, um, and a lot of that becomes, it comes at the, at the hands of the. The fact that in these prisons, they do not have programs that teach people usable, marketable skills.

When you , when you leave prison, what are you gonna do with the rest of your life? Well, I don't know. I'm gonna go Rob another bank, obviously, cause I have no other skills, right? I've been a CRI petty criminal since I was a kid and blah, blah, blah. Whatever the story is. Right. And [00:25:00] I would say that one of the best things about my father being incarcerated at Marion correctional institution, where he still is, is Marion correctional institution.

Unlike any other institution in the United States, they have like 70 or 80 different programs for inmates. And they are not specifically tied to religious organizations because many of these programs that are in other prisons are all tied to some sort of. Religious organization, whether you, you are, um, a, a Christian, whether you're a Muslim, those would be the two dominant religions I would [00:25:30] say, or, and Judaism, uh, in the incarceration system.

But then there's other, you know, uh, uh, other, you know, people who are indigenous people who they often treat native Americans as if it's a religion, but it's not, it's a, it's a way of life. Right. Um, and also doing a documentary about that as a matter of fact. But on that note, um, you. The more opportunities.

People have to educate themselves, getting books, getting knowledge learning. They won't come back to prison now, whether or not that is what we want them to do. You know, that [00:26:00] is not up to me or to, you know, elaborate or, or sort of extrapolate on any conspiracy theories about the incarceration system in the United States.

I will just say this, that giving people real opportunities to be able to come out and have a fresh. and not handouts, but opportunities to use their skills for good and not for bad because it is. It is very difficult to imagine just being thrown into a situation where you have no money, no job, you can't get [00:26:30] a job.

You can't get an apartment because you don't have any credit history. You don't have any of this. You just have criminal history. And not a lot of people are willing to open up the doors to let people come in. So Marion correctional institution, all that, to say this, they offer a lot of these programs and it's, it is amazing.

I mean, I'm sure it has its own flaws and issues. I'm sure. Drugs and yada, yada like every other prison in the United States. But, uh, they do have a. They do have a lot of programs for inmates. Um, and, uh, I gotta see that firsthand and I gotta see how that impacted people. And it was very positive. [00:27:00] It impacted their families really well cause they thought, okay, they got plan when they come out.

And there are many organizations that work in tandem there with it. I get off my soap box and I'm gonna get into this letter. So this says Christmas day, 2009, dear call your and, well, I won't mention her name, but she was my girlfriend at the. 38 degrees and raining at the moment. Some same now. Same. Oh man.

I can't see. This is a [00:27:30] doctor's handwriting by the way. So for those of you that can see this on YouTube, this is like, yeah. My father has writes with chicken scratch. Um, oh man, I'm gonna, it looks like, it says some prom, but it's not saying that some, oh, some. Some snow heading this way next week. I'm trying to get a call through to you with my case manager when I can, when I can track him down, the administration scored a triple no, no breakfast [00:28:00] today and Saturday and Sunday, all budget cuts.

I hope they let me go. That'll be the, that'll be that'll save them money, prayerfully. Everything is working out favorably for you. You have lots of talent and ability, which someone will soon recognize. I am anxious to know what's going on with your music, film projects, et cetera. Well, of course you are because you're wanting me to make a film to help you get outta prison.[00:28:30]

I'm waiting for final approval. And printing of my, oh, this is what I was talking about earlier my masters of divinity thesis, then I can start the coursework for my masters of divinity or divinity ministry degrees, abbreviating, all these. So I'm just sort of making it up. I have already. I have already completed my doctoral dissertation, but have to get some coursework [00:29:00] complete whose coursework completed.

I feel slash believe I am making a significant contribution to youthful offenders, but who knows it is such an ordeal to see any tangible results. I'm still plugging forward. I'm a glass half full. I believe in positive empowerment, you are the same type also. Oh Lord, [00:29:30] let me just finish this. Overall. The place is overcrowded and full of a generation unconcerned about their future.

Their children and most sadly about themselves. I don't know. I don't know. And can only speculate about what has happened to the state, to this state and this country. I am very proud of you stick to stick to the dreams they will materialize love and miss you. Right. Write via. And he [00:30:00] mentions a couple of people.

It's quicker XX. Oh, oh dad. Um, Yeah, you're very proud of me because this was the time when I was starting to talk about making a murder in Mansfield 2009. That for all of you, it takes a long time to make a film . And that is pretty much when that started. And, um, my father was gonna be up for parole in less than a year at that time and was looking for my support.

So of course he's very much, uh, [00:30:30] diving into, Hey yeah, bumper let's, uh, Yeah, I'm really proud of you stick to your dreams. You can do it. Oh man. It is interesting though. He's talking about the incarceration system and what it is. I mean, it's, it's, it's hard to read some of these things at, at times because some of the things are, uh, are, you know, he is accurate in saying what it goes on is that, [00:31:00] you know, these generations go in.

They get incarcerated and then they, you know, sort of abandoned all hope. That's how it is. Oh, and here it is. He has sent me a . He has sent me a little printout about this law firm that he wanted to hire to help him get out on his appeal, Cora and Wilford, LLP. For those of you watching on YouTube, there you go.[00:31:30]

Um, Who I actually met with during his parole and went to the parole hearing in 2010, uh, which I will get into in another episode for sure. But, um, that's interesting. And I just realized that I actually have footage of meeting with that lawyer and talking to him in his office and I set it up and I just remembered, I have that.

So guess what's gonna be dug out of the archive. and put onto my Patreon for those of you that support. You'll [00:32:00] get to see it. I know I've got it somewhere and it's gonna be super duper cool. Um, yeah, cause I talked a lot with his attorney at the time too, because I was again, teeing all this stuff up for the film even, you know, years before I shot.

So when I started getting cameras and I was able to sneak one in and it was a whole thing. So, um, I guess I'm giving away a lot of information too. Some of these other envelopes here that I'm looking through. Cause I wanna [00:32:30] pull another letter. Let's see. Okay. Let's try another one. Here we go. All right. So this is written, um, This is written well, I'm trying to look at the envelope.

It has so much posted 2000. I don't know. I can't tell you. Let's see what's inside here. And again, a lot of these, you know, when we were making the film and murder of Mansfield, the production team, sort of pillage through these and, uh, they're all put down in different envelopes [00:33:00] anyways. Okay. Monday a.

Memorial day, 2009 dear bumper. Oh, my father wrote this in, um, in printed handwriting instead of chicken scratch. So for those of you, again, washing on YouTube, you can see it. It is clearly written in regular print lettering. So, um, yeah, wild, the different handwritings is always what I think is interesting, cuz he'll type and then he'll write with a chicken scratch and then he'll do this block printing.

Um, [00:33:30] I really want somebody to look over this stuff. Well, anyways, here we go. Uh, gear bumper, which for those of you who don't know my, that was my nickname, uh, that my father and mother gave me. I grew up the first. God, um, four and a half years of my life on a Naval base, outside dog in Virginia, and the airplanes would land in the backyard essentially, literally.

And, um, I would point to the nose code of the airplanes and I called it a bumper. So that's how I got that nickname bumper. So just [00:34:00] a fun little Tibit. Um, I may have mentioned this on the program before, but anyways, uh, tear bumper. Well, did you go down to pinks for a holiday treat? Ha, I've never been there only to San Diego, a few times on Navy business, but I saw it on a TV show.

PBS about the history of hot dogs. I might have to try it someday. Incidentally, no hot dogs are served in the. Go figure. I don't believe that. I think hotdogs are so cheap. You have to serve them in prison. Come on. [00:34:30] That's like the ultimate prison food. Isn't it.

I saw the Memorial day show also on PBS from the capital mall, CJ, which is my father's brother, Charles. Go used to go to it sometimes. And I would always try to spot hi. Hi him and Gale, when they panned the audience, never, never succeeded. Do you remember one of your baby pictures taken on the cannon at Pensacola?

Yes, I do. I do [00:35:00] remember that baby picture. I have that you were about two years old. Very cute. I can recall that day as if it were just a moment ago. Anyhow. It is one of my favorite pictures of you. I may, I may have told you previously that some of my happiest moments were spent in Pensacola mommy's would Al mommy would always call it Pepsi Cola.

Pensacola meaning Pensacola, Florida, which I also lived at [00:35:30] right before we lived in Virginia for six months. I was a baby at the time. How about Susan Boyle? Nokin to the boils, but I'm glad to see her succeed with whatever measure of success. I guess he's talking about, I think she won American idol or something like that, or, um, Some competition America, Scott high, I don't know Susan Boyle.

She was an opera singer. Um, Hey, Maryanne continues to grow up sadly to say last week there were three staff assaults all day, all by gang, by gang [00:36:00] bangers. The place is packed and they are talking about. Triple bunking in an, in an already part, an already packed two man cell. There is something insane about all of this.

A guy told me last night, that three RC Sheriff's deputies are under investigation for fabricating evidence to get guys convicted. How shocking question mark exclamation point. If I get an article from him, I'll send it along. So I guess what he was referring to is a guy told me last night, that three [00:36:30] Richland counties.

So RC meaning Richland county Sheriff's deputies were under investigation for fabricating evidence to get guys con convicted again. So my father is up for parole. In about a year from this time. And he's again, still talking about fabricating evidence and things of that nature. Like, look, I can't speak to these Sheriff's deputies or whatever, but again, he's alluding this to say himself, Hey, oh look like, look, they fabricated evidence just like they did in my trial.

Which of course they didn't. Um, I stuck [00:37:00] an article in about the continuing. Ohio prison mass, but I suspect you have enough of these problems in California. Well, yeah, that's very true. California's prison system is out of control and it has been for quite some time. Uh, do you ever get up, get up to Berkeley.

I know some guys up there. How are you doing? I hope you are okay. I'm sorry if I offended you, but I didn't do anything on purpose. I would like to hear from you. So please take the time to write me. It's important for both of us. [00:37:30] Weather is nice and sunny today. Slight breeze, nothing else going on in here today, all activities shut down, but the guards are smiling triple time for their holiday work.

So everyone is doing the zombie walk with walk until tomorrow. The budget cuts have really put the, put the crunch on everything down to the toilet paper and laundry soap. The whites come back gray from the laundry dishes are greasy. Uh, in the chow hall, everyone in a perpetual state of, of flu-like illness, I'm really surprised from a [00:38:00] hygiene aspect, the prisons aren't outbreaks of, of pestilence of pestilence, but maybe that's, maybe that's in the.

I gotta get outta here. Amen. So, okay. I had to struggle through that, that last line, but, um, because this is where my mind is going. So my father is using something that , that is. Uh, obviously very [00:38:30] clearly, uh, an issue in the prisons, which is, uh, a care of inmates and, and budget cuts. And, and obviously privatizing prisons in the United States has been a thing.

And, um, often the inmates suffer, but again, and my father did this to me as a kid. And I remember my adopted father George, um, bringing this up there was. A letter that he wrote me and he was longing for a filet of fish sandwich from McDonald's. And [00:39:00] my adopted father pointed out the letter was reading it to me.

And he said, this is manipulation. Your father is trying to make you feel guilty because all he wants is a filet of fish sandwich. Well, maybe he shouldn't have murdered your mother. And again, my father complaining about the, the, um, complaining about. The conditions of the prison that he is in. Well, maybe you shouldn't have [00:39:30] murdered my mother and put yourself in prison.

I think that's one of the, the, the key things with like gas lighting and narcissism and scapegoating that comes from these. So sociopaths, literally like you are trying to make me feel guilty. Or feel sorry for you for being in prison and being in such tough conditions, but you chose to put yourself in [00:40:00] those tough, difficult conditions.

I mean, it's so weird reading this. I mean, this is like 13 years ago and it's still just as clear as day. And then, you know, I gotta get outta here. Amen. Do you go to the beach, Malibu or Laguna? Have you ever gone down to Santa Monica pier? Well, now I live like a block away muscle beach, et cetera. I don't know if it's up to up or down from you.[00:40:30]

I always wondered about those, those places since California is Mecca. As you know, our gym, all antiquated Nautilus machines is really available to us. And us because of scheduling and staff problems, but remains the best available. I try to get into the gym three times a week for one hour. That is all we are allowed.

Even to walk around the outside track track is a time nightmare. So as tricep crunches on the toilet bowl, bicep work, [00:41:00] hanging from the bed frame, AB work on the bed, cetera, et cetera, a real improvised situation in here. Maybe it's the weather or my last birthday, 66, but I am aching in places. Never ached before.

I think it's arthritis. How is your job coming along? Do you freelance or you're on someone's payroll? Are you still doing the renting? I hope you're okay. Well stay safe and healthy. You're in my thoughts and prayers always loved Eddie, blah, blah, blah. Um, [00:41:30] yeah, again, painting a picture of what it's like to be in prison.

Um,

Yeah, man, you put yourself in prison, you shouldn't murdered my mother. That's sort of the end of the, that's kind of the end of the end of the conversation. Really? Um,

yeah, he was 66. Well, my mother never got to see 66 and next week she would've been 77. [00:42:00] So.

Yeah. You know, sometimes these letters hit me. They hit me in a way that, uh, I'm not ever really prepared for. And I think this is something, and I don't know if this is just being a trauma victim or going through trauma or experiencing trauma like this, or being a, a, a victim. True crime or, or whatever, or a survivor.

I, you know, whatever [00:42:30] the preferred nomenclature would be for this. But I would say that I, I think sometimes I'm prepared to talk about this stuff and sometimes it hits me and I have all like a wave of emotions because I think sometimes I feel sorry for my father. I feel sorry for. Uh, being in such a horrible place.

And I think about it, like if I was in a horrible place like that, and if I was thinking to myself of like, you know, like, [00:43:00] wow, like that would just really suck. But again, like. He did it to himself. So I have to constantly remind myself of that. So I think when, you know, you listen and you, you know, when you guys are listening and you're thinking about like, how does this guy cope with this or, or deal with his life?

I mean, sometimes honestly it is really challenging for me straight up. It is really difficult to imagine that my father has been living in a eight by. [00:43:30] We were eight by six room for 32 years because of a decision that he made that he didn't have to make because of an action that he did, that he didn't have to do.

And because of the catastrophic destruction that occurred, not only with my mother's. With my [00:44:00] life, my family's life, my community's life, the ripple effects go far beyond what is the immediacy of his, um, you know, not being able to use the gym and having to do tricep crunches on the toilet bowl, inside his prison cell.

All it goes a lot further than that. And again, the only person in this entire situation that had a choice. Was him.[00:44:30]

Ah, that's my 2 cents. And, uh, well, yeah,

on that note, I'm call your Landry and this is moving past murder. Thanks. Y'all.

This podcast is made possible by support from listeners, just like [00:45:00] you. Please subscribe via apple podcast, Spotify audible. Find us on YouTube, youtube.com/callier.

The film a murder in Mansfield is available on investigation discovery discovery, plus. Amazon prime video.

This podcast is a production of don't touch my radio in [00:45:30] association with RSA entertainment, please visit MPM podcast.com to show your support today.Collier Landry: [00:00:00] I was reflecting on my sort of experience in the incarceration system and in the prison system. And I realized that I have actually over the years, um, in dealing with my father and visiting my father and spending time in the prison and I will. Get to a lot of this. When I talk about making a murder in Mansfield, how I spent time inside the actual prison, working with people [00:00:30] in the video production department, in the prison.

Um, but, uh, I have spent at least a year of my life in prison, not as an inmate, not as a, as a guest of the state, in the sense of that. I, I don't get out after a certain time. I was able to walk away and go home every day, but I spent a year in prison. So, um, I know what I'm talking about and I have seen many people come through those visitation rooms and those [00:01:00] walls.

And, uh, again, the incarceration system in this country is something that we really need to look at.

Testimony continued today in the most notorious criminal trial in Richland county history. Dr. John Boyle is accused of killing his wife, Maureen, and burying her body in the basement of his new home in Erie, Pennsylvania. The 12 year old son finally took the stand. As I heard a scream, I heard a thud was about this loud.

We, the jury find the defendant guilty [00:01:30] when I was 12 years old, my testimony sent my father to prison for murdering my mother. This podcast serves as a type of therapy and reconciliation for myself. And it is my hope that it helps anyone who has experienced deception, betrayal, and dark trauma. I'm call your Landry and this is moving past murder.

Hey movers. Welcome back to another episode of moving past murder. I'm your host. Call your Landry and [00:02:00] what's go. No on. Ugh, never gets old. it really doesn't. I love doing it. Uh, what's going on people happy Friday. And uh, Hey, this is the 55th episode of moving past murder. I can't believe I made it this far.

This is kind of crazy. And we've been on this journey, this very, very, very exciting journey together where I share all these wonderful tidbits about my life. Of being a true crime survivor and also, uh, talking to some really cool [00:02:30] people along the way. And, um, one of those really cool people was, uh, judge James Henson, retired judge of Richland county, common plea court, who I had on the last two episodes.

I did a two parter episode with him and you guys probably heard it cuz judge James Henson was the judge at my father's murder trial. Where I testified for two days against my father and he is still incarcerated to this day. So, uh, [00:03:00] that was interesting. And I found, you know, I got a lot of comments, a lot of questions, obviously.

Uh, I just did an AMA on my Patreon on this last Tuesday, the 20th, a lot of people asking me, you know, wow. Even after all these years, you are. Finding out things that you didn't know happened. And, and it, didn't not only with the case itself, but also with shit that my father pulled. [00:03:30] And, um, yeah, that's very true.

It is one of those, uh, I would say that , I would say that, uh, what has happened in my life, my very young life, uh, is just a gift that keeps on giving. What can I say? Um, but no, in all seriousness, it was. That was an, an interesting last couple episodes for me, because again, I found out things like my father rented a cold storage unit to put my mother, my mother's body in, um, while he was digging [00:04:00] her grave underneath the house.

I mean, just all kinds of stuff. It's just,

I, you know, I used to, as I ask my father in the film of murder Mansfield, do you think you're a sociopath? Um, you know, I think also there are elements of what he did, that there are elements of psychopathy, right? I'm pretty convinced of that, uh, based upon his behavior. And Hey, look, I was on Dr. Phil and Dr.

Phil told me. [00:04:30] This man's a psychopath. So there you go. He heard it from Dr. Phil. He, he knows his stuff. Right. But no, in all seriousness, it got me really thinking. And, and also, uh, this coming Wednesday, September 28th would be my mother's birthday. She would've been 77. And, uh, so this brings up a lot of things for me.

And it also, you know, again, After talking to the judge and who I hadn't spoken to really for at least 20 years, but [00:05:00] spoken to about the case really ever actually. And, um, I, uh, man, the depths of the psychopathy that. He, um, that my father exuded, I'm really starting to see a pattern as I hear more and more stories.

And I'm sure it's not gonna be alone because I have all kinds of stuff that I've trudged up over the last. I just recently went back to Ohio about a month ago and, uh, you know, [00:05:30] I trudged up some more wonderful things that I'm gonna be sharing on the program. Um, . It's just, it is the gift that keeps on giving.

That's all I gotta say. Um, but, uh, yeah, reflecting on my mother and there will be another episode about this, but reflecting on my mother and, um, you know, what it would've been like to know her as she aged gracefully into her late seventies. Um, would she even still be, here is a question that goes through my head.

I mean, obviously she's not here anymore, but, um, at [00:06:00] least not in the physical sense. And, um, I definitely think, uh, think about that a lot. And then I, of course, I, you know, naturally I think segue into my own mortality question, my own mortality, you know, it's just a rabbit hole that just keep going down.

But anyways, back to this Patreon meet and greet that I had, and it was asked me anything AMA session somebody had asked me about, uh, if I had seen sins of our mother. On Netflix, which is a Netflix documentary about Lori Vallow and her family and Lori Vallow for you guys can check [00:06:30] out the film and I'm not really gonna get too much into it, but basically she got, um, she.

Had, uh, three children, one of 'em was a little older than the others. And, um, got hooked up with this guy who wrote a bunch of books. They were involved with the church of latter day saints, uh, um, Mormons. And not that there's, I am not a religious person, but, and I don't subscribe to religion, but, uh, you know, to each his own.

So I'm not here to bastardize the church in any way, but, uh, this person, you know, [00:07:00] seemed to think that they were. A very prophetic figure to say the least, and we're gonna start a new Jerusalem. And it was where they lived. And I think they were in Colorado or something or Utah, Colorado. I don't know the some state in the mountain time zone that's for sure.

Um, but, uh, yeah, they, um, they. Killed their spouses. And then she ended up, uh, having her children killed in the name of starting this new, [00:07:30] weird lifestyle together and saving the world and that they're gonna be the survivors and, uh, thinking people are zombies and, uh, it just, and her brother was killed too mysteriously.

It's a lot. Uh, the cases are going to trial, um, in 2023. So it'll be interesting to see what happens. But again, this brings me back to just the overall psychopathy and recognizing a lot of parallel traits with my [00:08:00] father. You know what it's like to bury, you know, cuz they bury the kids on the property, on the boyfriend's property.

Like what that looks like, you know, taking the lives of innocent children. And I mean, I just, I can't fathom at myself, but again, this is me just kind of reflecting on this due to what happened, uh, in my circumstances with my father murdering my mother and also, you know, thinking about she would've been 77.

And then you couple that with [00:08:30] also the fact that, um, you know, uh, I see this film because everybody's like, Hey, you should check out this film. And, um, you know, I watched it of course at like two in the morning, which I would not recommend for anyone. Um, I didn't really realize what I was getting into. Uh, I am not a huge, um, I'm not a huge watcher or consumer of true crime, as I've said many times on this program before.

It's just not something that. Into, because my life is a true crime [00:09:00] mystery story. And again, it is a mystery that keeps unfolding because I keep finding out these things about my father in his case and all this stuff, like when I talk to the judge. Right. So, um, yeah, just a lot to reflect on, but if you have not seen sins of our mother and you were into the true crime, You should check it out, but be worn.

It is really heavy and it is very, very tragic. What happened. I mean, look, all violence and senseless acts of violence, especially when perpetrated on children [00:09:30] and families is inherently tragic. Um, but this one is just really. Because I, they are so diluted in their narcissism and their sociopathy that they think that what they were doing is, is right.

And they were killing zombies and they were, um, going to start this new, I dunno, if you wanna call it a new world order or what they were saving the planet together. I don't, I don't understand it. Ah, but anyways, it was on [00:10:00] my mind. I figured I'd. I want to get into this week's listener message of the week.

And this one comes from Cora hope on Instagram and it reads hi Collier. My name is Cora and I wanted to reach out to you to let you know that finding someone with a personality and heart like yours is few and far between I finished watching your Hulu series and I wanted to express how truly empathetic I am towards you in the end.

The way you spoke to your dad was courageous [00:10:30] and moving. Not a lot of people have the type of strength to question people to that level or even bluntly ask. If he thinks he's a sociopath while I have never had to go through a trauma as serious as murder, I've been put in situations like that over the course of my life and has found myself facing people the same way you.

Thank you for showing me that the way that I approach situations is okay and wanting to help those who have hurt us is not abnormal. All the best to you. [00:11:00] Kindly Quora. Um, Cora, thank you so much for reaching out and, um, your message is really sweet. And, um, so thank you for that. Uh, showing her the, that the way you approach situations is okay.

And wanting to help those who have heard us is not abnormal. And honestly, like. Cora, that is sort of the fundamental core of what I sort of get into a lot in my life when I work [00:11:30] with people or when I do this program or I speak or what have you. And I, um, you know, I think the biggest thing in this situation like this is you cannot let these people change.

You. Because they change you, they win. Right. And ultimately it's not about like winning or losing. It's not like a zero sum game, but what it is is when somebody is so egregious and is so destructive in your [00:12:00] life. I mean, I guess, you know, when I was talking to the judge, In these last two episodes. One of the things that I realized as I was talking to him is that I gave my father multiple opportunities to come clean about murdering my mother.

Not only did I do that, you know, in court, but you know, over the years in building a relationship with him that led up to making a murder in Mansfield, but also then ultimately in a murder in Mansfield. Itself. [00:12:30] When I, I offer him the opportunity to share the truth to come clean and he has yet another story and another story and another story.

And, you know, if you haven't seen the film, you should watch it. It's fantastic. Or, I mean, I, I think it's fantastic. I think a lot of people think it's fantastic. I don't mean toot my own horn, but yeah, it's a really powerful film. It's a very powerful. Um, I hate my haircut in it. I'll just say that for the record.

I hate my haircut. Um, but whatever , that's not what it's about. Uh, but yeah, I think [00:13:00] you can glean a lot of, um, a lot of insight from, in dealing with people who have injured. You so have been so egregious and so destructive in your life. Just trying to have that grace and sort of poise to. Just always give them one more opportunity and look that doesn't mean you let them walk all over you either.

That just means that you take you just[00:13:30]

it's your life. It's not theirs. and the more you let them suck you into their bullshit, or you let them suck you into their world or, or allow them to manipulate you without taking a sand and saying enough is enough. Like that's when it really starts to affect you taking a stand, asking the hard and tough questions and giving them the opportunity to answer those.

Like the only, the only feeling that you can [00:14:00] get out of doing that is holding your head high. So I don't know if she was asking for my advice, Cora, but, um, if you were asking for my advice I don't think so. I think you were just offering a commentary on it, but at the end of the day, yeah. It's it is. You gotta do it for you.

And as I talked about with a judge, you know, even with forgiveness, you've gotta, you, you have to. Forgiveness is not about them. It's about you. You've gotta just let go and just be like, you know, [00:14:30] this is, and it's not easy. I mean, I'm sitting here saying this behind a microphone in front of a camera saying, okay.

Yeah, this is, yeah, it's great. It's it's not great. It's horrible. It sucks. don't get it twisted kids, but at the end of the day, I mean, you just have to get on with your life. I mean, you can either do that or you can be consumed. I never wanted to be consumed by it. I mean, I'm not without my fault. I got plenty of them, but, um, [00:15:00] I am at the end of the day, really glad that I was, you know, two, nine owned self be true as the bar wrote.

Right. Um, okay. So getting to this week's, uh, this week's episode, so. Um, I'm reflecting on the fact that my mother would turn 77 next Wednesday, September 28th, actually fun fact, my both myself and, um, my mother are born on the 28th. I am born on February 28th. She is born in August or sorry, September 28th.

[00:15:30] And the dog that I had that I never got to see after I was yanked out of my family home on January 24th, 19. Gowdy had a birthday on August 28th. So my dog my, my, uh, my mother and myself all had birthdays on the 28th and then she would always joke. And then your father was born on May 1st. So there you go.

he was the apparent black sheep from jump. Uh, okay. But speaking of that, uh, [00:16:00] that very intriguing, interesting gentleman behind, uh, Four walls of iron in the iron house. Uh, let's get to a letter from prison and, um, I'm gonna pull one. Okay. That one let's see here. So for those of you that are watching on YouTube, which by the way, if you're watching on YouTube, please like, and subscribe, it helps with the algorithm, please, if you can.

And for those of you, you listening on apple podcasts, Spotify, please subscribe to this program. All of your downloads, really help [00:16:30] get the word out, spread the word, share with your friends. Uh, if you're enjoying the program, please give me great reviews. On your favorite podcast app, whether that's apple, Spotify, and, um, I appreciate all of it.

I really do. Oh, look, here's a photograph that I found on my father. So for those of you watching on YouTube, I'll just hold this up so you can see. So my father is in front of a background sitting on a chair, a background of an all snowy winters day. I'm sure it says something on the back. Oh, it says dock boil on the back [00:17:00] two, 2009.

So that was from February, 2009. So that was just kind of floating out here with these letters. So I'm gonna pull one, let's see here. I'm always trying to like, look at the addresses that are on the envelopes too, because that sort of tells me like, Hey, where was I living in California at the time? And I've been in officially now in California.

Well, I'm sorry, officially now in Los Angeles, almost 20 years, which is wild to me. Um, But I'm so glad that I moved out [00:17:30] here for many reasons. Uh, the least of which is, uh, isn't, uh, the weather that's for sure. Um, because I love it out here. Um, alright, let me see here. I'm going to poll well, I got a couple.

Yeah, it was all. Oh, this one was from, oh, okay. This is interesting. All right. So, um, this is when I was living in Hollywood. Let me make sure there's something in here. And again, it's just for you guys to know, um, this is the first time I'm looking at these since, whenever I [00:18:00] opened them the first time. So some of these are 20, 30 years old.

Some of them, these are, you know, a, a decade old. It just depends. So I think that was just a. Sheet I found, uh, recently also, which I'm gonna dive into. Um, my father wrote a like dissertation or master's thesis on, um, for getting his masters of divinity in, um, in, uh, prison. He did this whole thing and he said [00:18:30] it to me and it is, this is weird.

This is like a family and friend. Social. I don't know. This is like a Christmas thing. It's not a real letter. I don't know. It's not a real letter. I want a real letter guys. That's what I want. Let's see here.

So these are all sent around the [00:19:00] late two thousands. So 2008, 2009. I'm really gonna put my glasses on. My father wrote this one by hand Christmas day, 2009. Okay. So obviously that's where that little photograph that I just popped out of him sitting in front of a snowy white background in the prison photo area.

Uh, so that's probably part of this letter, so, okay. Was we have this, uh, him sitting in front of a yeah. Snowy white background says doc boy, 2009. Oh. Graduation opportunities [00:19:30] in pork production. March 14th, 2009. I don't know what this is. Okay. There was an agenda. So my father graduated. Yeah, no, this is no joke.

Okay. Dead ass. Seriously. Um, this says graduation opportunities in pork production, March 10th, 2009 in [00:20:00] this, on. Is a, a graduation like invite or agenda or whatever it is. And it's yeah, it's got keynote speaker w Randall brown, national pork board. Remarks, Maggie bright, uh, uh, bright Bitler, Warren warden, Jason bun, bunting, deputy warden, who I met, um, very cool guy, um, [00:20:30] acknowledgements.

And my father is one of the graduates on here, loves of other people listed. So my father, um, graduated a course in opportunities in, in. Poor production. So this is interesting because, so this is sponsored by Purdue university, national pork board, Iowa state university. Um, so this is interesting. So despite my father being incarcerated from murdering my mother, I definitely do [00:21:00] have a lot of feelings about the way that.

Incarceration system is run in this country and I'm not gonna get into that in this conversation, but I am going to get into that later on in the program on another episode, cause I'm gonna start talking to some people about this, about prison reform, about reducing recidivism rates, look crime in the United States.

Really bad right now. It's really bad in Los Angeles. It, you know, [00:21:30] it's obviously a big city, but it's kind, it's worse than it normally was and blame it on the pandemic, blaming on economic and socioeconomic opportunities for people. What have you? I don't know. It's um, but. You know, our incarceration system really needs to be addressed in this country.

That is my opinion. And look for those of you that are listening, you have to understand that I just actually, the other day was thinking about, because I'm doing another podcast, uh, that I've started with my dear friend, Tara renewal. Who is famous from, [00:22:00] uh, the dirty John series. She is the one who ended dirty John Han's life.

When he came after her with a knife, with the intent on murdering her, and then eventually murdering the rest of her family. He was married to her mother, Deborah renewal. It became the subject of a Wondery podcast done with the LA times called dirty John, which then became a television show and now a series and, and, uh, franchise called dirty John.

But season one, Uh, which started Connie bra, uh, uh, Connie Briton, Eric Bann, [00:22:30] um, Jane smart, uh, Tara was played by Julia Garner. Who's famous from, uh, Ozark, Juno temple was in it, uh, a bunch of people. Uh, it was a fantastic show, but, um, her and I have started a podcast, uh, called the survivor squad and I was reflecting on my sort of experience in the incarceration system and in the prison system.

And I realized. I have actually over the years, um, in dealing with my father and [00:23:00] visiting my father and spending time in the prison. And I will get to a lot of this. When I talk about making a murder in Mansfield, how I spent time inside the actual prison, working with people in the video production department in prison.

Um, but, uh, I have spent at least a year of my. In prison, not as an inmate, not as a, as a guest of the state, in the sense of that. I, I don't get out after a certain time. I was able to walk away and go home every day, [00:23:30] but I've spent a year in prison. So, um, I know what I'm talking about, and I have seen many people come through those visitation rooms and those walls.

And, uh, again, the incarceration system in this country is something that we really need to look at. Specifically to reduce recidivism rates. So people don't go back to prison. And part of that starts with giving opportunities to individuals that are incarcerated. And look, I understand that they're criminals and they've done bad things.

Yes. I get that. I [00:24:00] understand lady justice has tipped the scales and they are , they are incarcerated, but that does not mean that a lot of people are not able to be reformed. You know, a lot of these people will end up as my father would tell me many, many times and many, many letters, and I'm sure I will get into some of those eventually, uh, where you, uh, you know, people learn to when they go to prison, they learn how to become better criminals.

It's basically like going to college for criminals in a lot of ways. Um, I mean, that's a really [00:24:30] weird way to look at it, but it is actually very true. And, um, and a lot of that becomes, it comes at the, at the hands of the. The fact that in these prisons, they do not have programs that teach people usable, marketable skills.

When you , when you leave prison, what are you gonna do with the rest of your life? Well, I don't know. I'm gonna go Rob another bank, obviously, cause I have no other skills, right? I've been a CRI petty criminal since I was a kid and blah, blah, blah. Whatever the story is. Right. And [00:25:00] I would say that one of the best things about my father being incarcerated at Marion correctional institution, where he still is, is Marion correctional institution.

Unlike any other institution in the United States, they have like 70 or 80 different programs for inmates. And they are not specifically tied to religious organizations because many of these programs that are in other prisons are all tied to some sort of. Religious organization, whether you, you are, um, a, a Christian, whether you're a Muslim, those would be the two dominant religions I would [00:25:30] say, or, and Judaism, uh, in the incarceration system.

But then there's other, you know, uh, uh, other, you know, people who are indigenous people who they often treat native Americans as if it's a religion, but it's not, it's a, it's a way of life. Right. Um, and also doing a documentary about that as a matter of fact. But on that note, um, you. The more opportunities.

People have to educate themselves, getting books, getting knowledge learning. They won't come back to prison now, whether or not that is what we want them to do. You know, that [00:26:00] is not up to me or to, you know, elaborate or, or sort of extrapolate on any conspiracy theories about the incarceration system in the United States.

I will just say this, that giving people real opportunities to be able to come out and have a fresh. and not handouts, but opportunities to use their skills for good and not for bad because it is. It is very difficult to imagine just being thrown into a situation where you have no money, no job, you can't get [00:26:30] a job.

You can't get an apartment because you don't have any credit history. You don't have any of this. You just have criminal history. And not a lot of people are willing to open up the doors to let people come in. So Marion correctional institution, all that, to say this, they offer a lot of these programs and it's, it is amazing.

I mean, I'm sure it has its own flaws and issues. I'm sure. Drugs and yada, yada like every other prison in the United States. But, uh, they do have a. They do have a lot of programs for inmates. Um, and, uh, I gotta see that firsthand and I gotta see how that impacted people. And it was very positive. [00:27:00] It impacted their families really well cause they thought, okay, they got plan when they come out.

And there are many organizations that work in tandem there with it. I get off my soap box and I'm gonna get into this letter. So this says Christmas day, 2009, dear call your and, well, I won't mention her name, but she was my girlfriend at the. 38 degrees and raining at the moment. Some same now. Same. Oh man.

I can't see. This is a [00:27:30] doctor's handwriting by the way. So for those of you that can see this on YouTube, this is like, yeah. My father has writes with chicken scratch. Um, oh man, I'm gonna, it looks like, it says some prom, but it's not saying that some, oh, some. Some snow heading this way next week. I'm trying to get a call through to you with my case manager when I can, when I can track him down, the administration scored a triple no, no breakfast [00:28:00] today and Saturday and Sunday, all budget cuts.

I hope they let me go. That'll be the, that'll be that'll save them money, prayerfully. Everything is working out favorably for you. You have lots of talent and ability, which someone will soon recognize. I am anxious to know what's going on with your music, film projects, et cetera. Well, of course you are because you're wanting me to make a film to help you get outta prison.[00:28:30]

I'm waiting for final approval. And printing of my, oh, this is what I was talking about earlier my masters of divinity thesis, then I can start the coursework for my masters of divinity or divinity ministry degrees, abbreviating, all these. So I'm just sort of making it up. I have already. I have already completed my doctoral dissertation, but have to get some coursework [00:29:00] complete whose coursework completed.

I feel slash believe I am making a significant contribution to youthful offenders, but who knows it is such an ordeal to see any tangible results. I'm still plugging forward. I'm a glass half full. I believe in positive empowerment, you are the same type also. Oh Lord, [00:29:30] let me just finish this. Overall. The place is overcrowded and full of a generation unconcerned about their future.

Their children and most sadly about themselves. I don't know. I don't know. And can only speculate about what has happened to the state, to this state and this country. I am very proud of you stick to stick to the dreams they will materialize love and miss you. Right. Write via. And he [00:30:00] mentions a couple of people.

It's quicker XX. Oh, oh dad. Um, Yeah, you're very proud of me because this was the time when I was starting to talk about making a murder in Mansfield 2009. That for all of you, it takes a long time to make a film . And that is pretty much when that started. And, um, my father was gonna be up for parole in less than a year at that time and was looking for my support.

So of course he's very much, uh, [00:30:30] diving into, Hey yeah, bumper let's, uh, Yeah, I'm really proud of you stick to your dreams. You can do it. Oh man. It is interesting though. He's talking about the incarceration system and what it is. I mean, it's, it's, it's hard to read some of these things at, at times because some of the things are, uh, are, you know, he is accurate in saying what it goes on is that, [00:31:00] you know, these generations go in.

They get incarcerated and then they, you know, sort of abandoned all hope. That's how it is. Oh, and here it is. He has sent me a . He has sent me a little printout about this law firm that he wanted to hire to help him get out on his appeal, Cora and Wilford, LLP. For those of you watching on YouTube, there you go.[00:31:30]

Um, Who I actually met with during his parole and went to the parole hearing in 2010, uh, which I will get into in another episode for sure. But, um, that's interesting. And I just realized that I actually have footage of meeting with that lawyer and talking to him in his office and I set it up and I just remembered, I have that.

So guess what's gonna be dug out of the archive. and put onto my Patreon for those of you that support. You'll [00:32:00] get to see it. I know I've got it somewhere and it's gonna be super duper cool. Um, yeah, cause I talked a lot with his attorney at the time too, because I was again, teeing all this stuff up for the film even, you know, years before I shot.

So when I started getting cameras and I was able to sneak one in and it was a whole thing. So, um, I guess I'm giving away a lot of information too. Some of these other envelopes here that I'm looking through. Cause I wanna [00:32:30] pull another letter. Let's see. Okay. Let's try another one. Here we go. All right. So this is written, um, This is written well, I'm trying to look at the envelope.

It has so much posted 2000. I don't know. I can't tell you. Let's see what's inside here. And again, a lot of these, you know, when we were making the film and murder of Mansfield, the production team, sort of pillage through these and, uh, they're all put down in different envelopes [00:33:00] anyways. Okay. Monday a.

Memorial day, 2009 dear bumper. Oh, my father wrote this in, um, in printed handwriting instead of chicken scratch. So for those of you, again, washing on YouTube, you can see it. It is clearly written in regular print lettering. So, um, yeah, wild, the different handwritings is always what I think is interesting, cuz he'll type and then he'll write with a chicken scratch and then he'll do this block printing.

Um, [00:33:30] I really want somebody to look over this stuff. Well, anyways, here we go. Uh, gear bumper, which for those of you who don't know my, that was my nickname, uh, that my father and mother gave me. I grew up the first. God, um, four and a half years of my life on a Naval base, outside dog in Virginia, and the airplanes would land in the backyard essentially, literally.

And, um, I would point to the nose code of the airplanes and I called it a bumper. So that's how I got that nickname bumper. So just [00:34:00] a fun little Tibit. Um, I may have mentioned this on the program before, but anyways, uh, tear bumper. Well, did you go down to pinks for a holiday treat? Ha, I've never been there only to San Diego, a few times on Navy business, but I saw it on a TV show.

PBS about the history of hot dogs. I might have to try it someday. Incidentally, no hot dogs are served in the. Go figure. I don't believe that. I think hotdogs are so cheap. You have to serve them in prison. Come on. [00:34:30] That's like the ultimate prison food. Isn't it.

I saw the Memorial day show also on PBS from the capital mall, CJ, which is my father's brother, Charles. Go used to go to it sometimes. And I would always try to spot hi. Hi him and Gale, when they panned the audience, never, never succeeded. Do you remember one of your baby pictures taken on the cannon at Pensacola?

Yes, I do. I do [00:35:00] remember that baby picture. I have that you were about two years old. Very cute. I can recall that day as if it were just a moment ago. Anyhow. It is one of my favorite pictures of you. I may, I may have told you previously that some of my happiest moments were spent in Pensacola mommy's would Al mommy would always call it Pepsi Cola.

Pensacola meaning Pensacola, Florida, which I also lived at [00:35:30] right before we lived in Virginia for six months. I was a baby at the time. How about Susan Boyle? Nokin to the boils, but I'm glad to see her succeed with whatever measure of success. I guess he's talking about, I think she won American idol or something like that, or, um, Some competition America, Scott high, I don't know Susan Boyle.

She was an opera singer. Um, Hey, Maryanne continues to grow up sadly to say last week there were three staff assaults all day, all by gang, by gang [00:36:00] bangers. The place is packed and they are talking about. Triple bunking in an, in an already part, an already packed two man cell. There is something insane about all of this.

A guy told me last night, that three RC Sheriff's deputies are under investigation for fabricating evidence to get guys convicted. How shocking question mark exclamation point. If I get an article from him, I'll send it along. So I guess what he was referring to is a guy told me last night, that three [00:36:30] Richland counties.

So RC meaning Richland county Sheriff's deputies were under investigation for fabricating evidence to get guys con convicted again. So my father is up for parole. In about a year from this time. And he's again, still talking about fabricating evidence and things of that nature. Like, look, I can't speak to these Sheriff's deputies or whatever, but again, he's alluding this to say himself, Hey, oh look like, look, they fabricated evidence just like they did in my trial.

Which of course they didn't. Um, I stuck [00:37:00] an article in about the continuing. Ohio prison mass, but I suspect you have enough of these problems in California. Well, yeah, that's very true. California's prison system is out of control and it has been for quite some time. Uh, do you ever get up, get up to Berkeley.

I know some guys up there. How are you doing? I hope you are okay. I'm sorry if I offended you, but I didn't do anything on purpose. I would like to hear from you. So please take the time to write me. It's important for both of us. [00:37:30] Weather is nice and sunny today. Slight breeze, nothing else going on in here today, all activities shut down, but the guards are smiling triple time for their holiday work.

So everyone is doing the zombie walk with walk until tomorrow. The budget cuts have really put the, put the crunch on everything down to the toilet paper and laundry soap. The whites come back gray from the laundry dishes are greasy. Uh, in the chow hall, everyone in a perpetual state of, of flu-like illness, I'm really surprised from a [00:38:00] hygiene aspect, the prisons aren't outbreaks of, of pestilence of pestilence, but maybe that's, maybe that's in the.

I gotta get outta here. Amen. So, okay. I had to struggle through that, that last line, but, um, because this is where my mind is going. So my father is using something that , that is. Uh, obviously very [00:38:30] clearly, uh, an issue in the prisons, which is, uh, a care of inmates and, and budget cuts. And, and obviously privatizing prisons in the United States has been a thing.

And, um, often the inmates suffer, but again, and my father did this to me as a kid. And I remember my adopted father George, um, bringing this up there was. A letter that he wrote me and he was longing for a filet of fish sandwich from McDonald's. And [00:39:00] my adopted father pointed out the letter was reading it to me.

And he said, this is manipulation. Your father is trying to make you feel guilty because all he wants is a filet of fish sandwich. Well, maybe he shouldn't have murdered your mother. And again, my father complaining about the, the, um, complaining about. The conditions of the prison that he is in. Well, maybe you shouldn't have [00:39:30] murdered my mother and put yourself in prison.

I think that's one of the, the, the key things with like gas lighting and narcissism and scapegoating that comes from these. So sociopaths, literally like you are trying to make me feel guilty. Or feel sorry for you for being in prison and being in such tough conditions, but you chose to put yourself in [00:40:00] those tough, difficult conditions.

I mean, it's so weird reading this. I mean, this is like 13 years ago and it's still just as clear as day. And then, you know, I gotta get outta here. Amen. Do you go to the beach, Malibu or Laguna? Have you ever gone down to Santa Monica pier? Well, now I live like a block away muscle beach, et cetera. I don't know if it's up to up or down from you.[00:40:30]

I always wondered about those, those places since California is Mecca. As you know, our gym, all antiquated Nautilus machines is really available to us. And us because of scheduling and staff problems, but remains the best available. I try to get into the gym three times a week for one hour. That is all we are allowed.

Even to walk around the outside track track is a time nightmare. So as tricep crunches on the toilet bowl, bicep work, [00:41:00] hanging from the bed frame, AB work on the bed, cetera, et cetera, a real improvised situation in here. Maybe it's the weather or my last birthday, 66, but I am aching in places. Never ached before.

I think it's arthritis. How is your job coming along? Do you freelance or you're on someone's payroll? Are you still doing the renting? I hope you're okay. Well stay safe and healthy. You're in my thoughts and prayers always loved Eddie, blah, blah, blah. Um, [00:41:30] yeah, again, painting a picture of what it's like to be in prison.

Um,

Yeah, man, you put yourself in prison, you shouldn't murdered my mother. That's sort of the end of the, that's kind of the end of the end of the conversation. Really? Um,

yeah, he was 66. Well, my mother never got to see 66 and next week she would've been 77. [00:42:00] So.

Yeah. You know, sometimes these letters hit me. They hit me in a way that, uh, I'm not ever really prepared for. And I think this is something, and I don't know if this is just being a trauma victim or going through trauma or experiencing trauma like this, or being a, a, a victim. True crime or, or whatever, or a survivor.

I, you know, whatever [00:42:30] the preferred nomenclature would be for this. But I would say that I, I think sometimes I'm prepared to talk about this stuff and sometimes it hits me and I have all like a wave of emotions because I think sometimes I feel sorry for my father. I feel sorry for. Uh, being in such a horrible place.

And I think about it, like if I was in a horrible place like that, and if I was thinking to myself of like, you know, like, [00:43:00] wow, like that would just really suck. But again, like. He did it to himself. So I have to constantly remind myself of that. So I think when, you know, you listen and you, you know, when you guys are listening and you're thinking about like, how does this guy cope with this or, or deal with his life?

I mean, sometimes honestly it is really challenging for me straight up. It is really difficult to imagine that my father has been living in a eight by. [00:43:30] We were eight by six room for 32 years because of a decision that he made that he didn't have to make because of an action that he did, that he didn't have to do.

And because of the catastrophic destruction that occurred, not only with my mother's. With my [00:44:00] life, my family's life, my community's life, the ripple effects go far beyond what is the immediacy of his, um, you know, not being able to use the gym and having to do tricep crunches on the toilet bowl, inside his prison cell.

All it goes a lot further than that. And again, the only person in this entire situation that had a choice. Was him.[00:44:30]

Ah, that's my 2 cents. And, uh, well, yeah,

on that note, I'm Collier Landry and this is Moving Past Murder. Thanks. Y'all.

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