My Dad Tries To Convince Me My Mom Caused Her Own Murder | Letters from Prison

In episode 33 of Moving Past Murder, Collier shares another one of his father's letters from prison. In an attempt to convince his son that his mother is partially to blame for her demise, Dr. John F. Boyle paints a picture for his young son that his mother might not be cast in a favorable light.

Episode highlights...

•Collier's father alludes to his mother being involved in criminal activity...

•Collier recalls a fake "Richland County Gazette" attempting to say his mother was selling Chinese babies and smuggling in gold from China...

•Collier shares how his father's brother, and Collier's estranged Godfather, tried to say that his mother appeared outside his office THREE days after she was killed...

Youtube link to this episode: https://youtu.be/2DuFFUsxDao

"Your Mother Was Misguided" - My Father's Letter From Prison Blames The Victim

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[00:00:00] There is this thing that my uncle had come out with and said that he saw my mother three days after she was murdered. She came to his office in Washington, DC. She confessed to him that she was part of a baby selling ring and a gold smuggling ring with the Chinese and all these, her friends were involved and all this stuff, all the, just this nonsense has crazy nonsense.

So. My father is obviously planning the season. I ended up finding out and I'll probably talk about this in another episode later on the program, where there were certain things that my father did with his course of control over his brother and sister. And so I think that my father influenced my uncle and look, my uncle worked for the department in the Navy.

Um, there is this course of control that these people have with them and it has to do, it's linked always to some sort of.

The testimony continued today in the most notorious criminal trial in Richland county [00:01:00] history. Dr. John Boyle is accused of killing his wife, Marine and burying her body in the basement of his new home in Erie, Pennsylvania. The 12 year old son lively took the stand I heard, but it's about this loud. We have a jury find the defendant guilty when I was 12 years.

My testimony sent my father to prison for murdering my mother. This podcast serves as a type of therapy and reconciliation for myself, and it is my hope that it helps anyone who has experienced deception, betrayal, and dark trial. I'm Collier Landry and this is moving past. Hey movers. Welcome back to another episode of moving past murder.

I am your host. Collier Landry and Hey, what's going on? We know what's going on. What's going on.

yes, probably. Shouldn't I don't know if I can sing that or not, but anyways. They have it. Um, I don't know. Anyways, happy Friday, I'm in a good mood and I hope you guys are too, [00:02:00] because remember life is too short and also life is a matter of perspective to choose yours wisely. I'm coming up with all these little quips as I go into this podcast.

And as I explore this new medium of content creation, and it's super cool that you guys are all on the journey with me and for those of you that are on the journey and that joined my IgE. Every Tuesday, 11:00 AM Pacific 2:00 PM. Eastern time. I love seeing you guys there. That's all my Instagram channel at call your Landry.

Also for those of you that are really diving in and helping support the program. I have a Patrion account, which is http://www.patreon.com/collierlandry or you can go to my website, www.collierlandry.com for all things moving past murder. And of course, subscribing and liking on the YouTube channel.

Subscribe on apple podcast, Stitcher, Spotify, go to Spotify, check it out wherever you get your. Your support is greatly appreciated. Thank you guys so much. Um, that's the spiel. We're going to get into another exciting episode today. And I have a letter to read. Somebody reached out to me on the [00:03:00] gram, and I'm going to put on my, for those of you watching my reading glasses, because as you guys know, I am farsighted and these help, uh, five for $12.

Somebody who was curious the other day, five, $12 on Amazon. Anyways, this one comes from Michelle K five. And she reached out to me on Instagram a couple of weeks ago, says Collier. I am sitting here watching a murder and Mansfield, and I am having many memories flood my mind of my narcissistic father. I'm sorry to hear that.

Although he never committed murder, he did have serial affairs. Wal-Mart married to my mother. My father was also just a horrible person. What pushed me to reach out to you was the letter he wrote back to you about how evil. I also received a similar letter from my father. It is sad to have experienced my father.

However, your story was one that touched me as my life could have been so much worse. Heard that before the way you have made yourself a better life than his is your best revenge. [00:04:00] I think you are a pretty amazing person. Your mom would be proud. Thank you for your story and thank you for being. Keep living a positive life.

Well, um, Michelle, thank you so much for saying that. That's really cool. I love hearing that. Uh, what I'm doing is resonating with you guys, my audience, and wow. Yeah. The, and I'm really sorry to hear that your father is a narcissist and was having cereal affairs against your mother. I mean, oh boy. I think this is always just such a, I mean, The world is a crazy place.

Right? So, um, I don't know what to say. My father did write me a letter saying that I was evil again. I, you know, I don't know what possesses a person's write that to a, what was that? Probably like 12, 13, whatever, a son whose mother he murdered. Um, who knows, but who am I here? Who am I? Who am I to [00:05:00] judge? Um, But I have experienced it.

It is a real thing. And narcissist and sociopath kind of suck. Oh, I will be at crime con the end of April, April 29th. May 1st, something like that. And May 1st, ironically, is that horrible sociopath's birthday. My father will turn 79 this year. And, um, wow. But we're going to get into that in another episode.

Um, but for those of you go to Chrome con, come check it out. I am not speaking. I'm not doing anything. I am literally going there for the first time to walk around as a normal human being and check it out. I see what happens and promote the podcast and meet people who may have seen me on forensic files or seen a murder in Mansfield or better yet.

Listen, and watch the podcast. Can you believe that? Oh, okay. That would be super cool. So I'm looking forward to connecting with all of you guys there. So on that note of Michelle's questions, I have my pulled out of my bin of goodies. And for those of you that might be new to the program. [00:06:00] Um, I have. All of my father's letters from prison.

And they span a period of about 31 years, 30 years, 29 years, something like that. It is a long time and there's about 500 of them. So I randomly pick one and I read them, uh, on this program and I've never read them before. Well, I read them when I was a child or, and, and for those of you that are curious because of the content of the.

My adoptive parents, making sure that my father wouldn't manipulate me, always pre-read the letters before they gave them to me for the most part. Um, and so, you know, when I was a minor, uh, they tried to look out for me and that was really cool of them. Um, but as an adult, I get to actually read them with an adult frame of mind and as someone who is doing his best to live his best life and not doing it in revenge against my.

I'm sorry, Michelle will tell you that because I want to live a good life just for me and a little bit from my mom, but I want to be, uh, you know, I just want to have a good life. Um, but [00:07:00] I'm going to dive into one of these letters. So I'm going to pull, I'll pull this one off the top and we're going to check it out because of.

This one, this one has this one that has a card in it or something. And this one came when my father was still at war and correctional institution, which is in Lebanon, Ohio. There's like Lebanon correctional institution. Then there's Warsi I think, which is in Warren, Ohio, then there's Lebanon. And like I said, in Lebanon, Ohio, and all that.

Um, so we're going to delve into this right now. Should we do it? Let's do it. All right. So. Trustee, Amazon reading glasses are going to get put on. I'm going to clean them first, but this way I can actually read the material properly. Okay. So there is a letter. All right. Oh, and here's something. Okay. So this was, I'm sorry, this was dated.[00:08:00]

There's no, there's no a postal stamp on the envelope. So I really don't know when this was sent out.

Okay. Ooh, very nice artwork. I don't know if you guys can see that or not. Oh, really? Are we not? Autofocusing now. Oh, camera anyways. For those of you watching, it's a bear. It's a bird. It's an owl. It says some are very, very wise. Okay. And some are not, oh, the irony of all this stuff, it's just amazing. Some are very, very wise.

My father was not one of those. Some are very, oh, and there's a giraffe and there is, oh my, oh my goodness.

oh, wow. This is like toad. Oh my goodness.[00:09:00]

there's a lot of hidden little messages in this one. This is kind of cool. Okay. So, um, well it's not cool. It's kind of sad actually, but, um, so for those of you that are watching, so we have the bear. And for those of you that aren't watching narrate what this says, obviously. Um, so when I opened up the, the envelopes of the card and it's, and you can get cards made in prison, you can, everybody makes everything in prison for those of you that might not know, like you can get pretty much anything in prison.

Um, in one degree or another, it's sort of like how much money do you want to pay or what do you want to do? Or what do you want to trade? What favors, whatever those favors may be. Hey, I don't know. Um, It's an interesting place for sure. Uh, but yeah, this says, so there's a bear. There's like I said, there's a bear.

There's like a, I don't know, a little parrot, there's an owl. And then on the inside, there's a draft and a tiger. So we're going to, so the bear says some sons are unbearable. [00:10:00] Maybe he's talking to me and some are kind of flighty and some are very, very wise. Unlike my. And some act high and mighty. Wow. Like, is that a, um, wow, that's a real thing, huh.

But some are downright girl. Great. And special. Just like you call your, my love and thoughts are always with you. Love daddy and there you have it. And autofocusing is slow, but yeah, there you go. For those of you watching on YouTube, you can see this. Oh. And he dates the back of the card with his doctor signature and slowly coming into focus.

Yeah, it has his doctor signature 1294. So this was, uh, okay, so this was obviously December, 1994. Love daddy X, X. Oh, oh, Hmm. [00:11:00] Well, That is super interesting, um, and full of Hindu, hidden innuendos, like your flighty or your high and mighty. I will take that at face value. Oh boy. Um, alright. This letter is Tuesday evening, 22nd, November, 1994, dear.

Well son, here I am again with another card thought you might appreciate my thoughts. Hope you are doing fine. I just cannot begin to tell you how much I miss. You are growing so well, so handsome and strong and intelligent. I am really proud of you now, for those of you who remember that earlier episode, like a few episodes ago, my father was sent, I had sent a letter around the same time period, ironically, um, Comedy how handsome I was and my, uh, homecoming [00:12:00] date at the time and all these just kind of bizarre things.

Um, and then he was at that, he decided to sort of gaslit me and tell me how he was a great father. And I don't need to tell him that he was a great father and he was always really good to myself and my mother and even his girlfriend who impregnated while he was married to my mother. Was jealous of both my mother and myself, because he took such good care of us.

Whew. Uh, it takes a special kind of person to write those things after killing someone's mother, but it happened and, you know, wow. So, you know, I don't know when I dig into these letters, I just kind of, I remembering this time in my life and I always say, and I said, in the last episode, I said, what was the ask?

Like, what's he looking for? And he wants, and around this time period, like I said before, [00:13:00] And the other episode, he was talking to me around that time because he was trying to butter me up because he wanted me to, if I remember correctly, he wanted me to rescind, rescind my testimony and say that I was coerced by the prosecutor and by the detective, Dave MES more to testify against him.

And not only that, but also to fabricate all of these lies and that I didn't really hear him. Slammed my mother's body against the wall or, well, what I now know, smashed the back of her skull into, and that she really did well at that time. She ran out after throwing Kara credit cards at him, that was a story and went into the car, into the driveway.

And then that story has actually had an evolution over the many years that he's been incarcerated. And then lately, as you've seen in the movie, a murder Mansfield, he says that she came at him with a knife and he pushed her and she hit her head. Downstairs, not upstairs right outside my bedroom [00:14:00] door.

That's where we're at in this stage of life with my father. And, um, it's interesting. Okay. So second paragraph. So many thoughts cross my mind as I glance at the visiting room and think about how short our time was. I missed you and would hope you would return when your schedule and Georgia's permits.

Okay. So my adoptive father, George. Who's in a murder Mansfield, as you've seen. Um, he, uh, would take me, or I don't know, I actually don't know how many times he took me to go visit my father, but as crazy as this might sound and as crazy as the situation was my adopted parents, Georgia, Susan Ziglar were very much in support of me trying to have.

As best of a relationship as I [00:15:00] could have with my father, whatever that looked like, because, um, I think. I think that deep down inside, they, they didn't want this man in my life, but, but I think that, or I know that they just really didn't want to be those parents that were like, well, you can't see your father because blah, blah, blah.

Um, and I think that was honestly a very smart move on their part because I think that they knew that that could quite possibly come back to breed resentment on them, perhaps. I don't know. Um, because I think. A lot of times, when I think about my friends who have parents who are divorced, for example, there becomes like this back and forth, uh, with the parents and they kind of, they kind of ping pong the kids back and forth.

Like, I don't want you to say, oh, you're not going to see your father. I'll be back. And even myself in my life, And the brief time between my, my mother was filed for divorce from my father. And when she was murdered, there was like, it was getting nastier and nastier. Like my, [00:16:00] my father came home or I spent any time with my father.

He would say, how's that bitch of your mother or your whore, your mother saying, and then my mother would say like, how's that asshole of your father doing and how how's his whore or whatever it was, which I mean, Was that right to do? No, it's not right, but it is very human. I mean, it really is. And like at the end of the day, what are you gonna do?

Um, we're all just trying to make it. And I think that's one of the things that I've had to come to grips with as an adult is that I was put in this, you know, precarious position, if you will, um, or predicament or whatever we want to call it. I mean, You know, my, my parents, I think, I probably think it like a lot of times.

And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this guys, but I think a lot of times, um, we grow up like idolizing our parents. I think we all do it. Right. We want to be [00:17:00] like our mother or our father. And usually it's the same gender as who we are. Right. So if you're a boy, you want to be like your dad, if you're a girl, you'd want to be like your mom for the most part.

Now I don't know if that's totally true, but that's just my impression. It could be wrong, whatever. Um, but I think that, um, I think you idolize them. You put them on a pedestal a little bit. And then as we all get older, we realize that our, our parents are just human beings, just like us. And they have problems and issues and, and things that go wrong and not everything is perfect.

And they really, at the end of the day, did the best they could with us. So I think that we realized that all that to say this, I think that we realize they're flawed and when they're flawed, And we accept that because we know that we're flawed, then we can sort of, you know, begin to reconcile with maybe our feelings of resentment or anger or, or frustration with our parents growing up or where our relationship is at [00:18:00] now with our parents.

Now that does not excuse the fact that my father murdered my mother. And I'm not saying that I understand his position or where he's coming from, or his position of the bullshit that he continually shill. In these letters to me as a young man or that he has as an adult, or I have, has to me as an adult, I am not excusing any of that saying like, oh, we're only human that's okay.

I forget none and under no, no, no. We're all responsible for our own lives. First of all. And what he did is inexcusable. No doubt about it. And, and there's, there's no justification for it. I don't care what it is and there's no justification should have just divorced my mother and been done with it. Um, because look at you now.

I mean, like I said, father is going to turn 79 in a couple of weeks. That's a long that's, you know, I like to think that's young. Cause I think the average adult age, the average age [00:19:00] that a, um, an American adult lives is around 78, 79, 77, 78, 79, which has not really increased in the last 20 years, which was interesting because I was reading an article recently about that, but we're not here to debate that.

Well, we are here to discuss is, um, that's a long time to be in prison. So he was court. He was officially, he was arrested when he was 46. He was incarcerated was 47. So that's 32 years that he has been inquiring.

It's a long, long time. That is about 32 years too long for my taste. Um, if I was a person that was incarcerated, but again, I make different choices because I am a, uh, sane and normal and understanding and empathetic adult. Um, and I try to live my life as a good human being. And I too am flawed. Um, Of the many things we did not discuss, oh boy, here it comes guys of the many [00:20:00] things we did not discuss, but which I feel is important is your mother Oman.

God, we are going there. See, and this is my natural reaction because this is reading it for the first time. Since I was a kid, it is important. You know, my feelings about several things in that regard. Oh, holy Lord. As I stated mommy was not my enemy. In fact, I always, in spite of our differences, thought of her as my best friend, obviously the love we once shared for each other turned into another type of love, but there was time when we loved each other deeply and passionately.

Something just happened along the way. Something just happened along the way in that love. Part my fault part, her fault, and this is actually written in his handwriting. So this letter, by the way, for those of you that are listening is typed. And then my father wrote in [00:21:00] his handwriting, which is right here.

If we can all see yeah, wow. Part my fault part, her fault. What part is her fault? So just really quick. So when I was making a murderer. I'm doing pre-production. I did speak to my father's sister, um, who I hadn't seen in 25 years, probably 23, like a very long time. And one of the things she confided in me, um, or she was telling me, cause I, cause when I actually talked to these relatives, like after, you know, saying like, why haven't I ever heard from you?

Um, is. Well, like what was my mom like? And she really gave you some amazing information. I think I've shared this before, but I found out that my mother, I knew my mother was a dental hygienist, but I never knew that my mother supported my father while he was in medical school, because she was making $25 an hour as a dental hygienist.

And in the sixties and seventies, that's a lot of money. It's [00:22:00] still, you know, a decent amount of money these days. Um, it was higher than minimum wage that's for sure. But it's definitely a living wage. I th I think, I hope maybe not in the recession. Maybe not when gas is $6 a gallon in California, but it, it used to be.

But I think that, um, that was a really cool thing. You know, I got to hear these amazing stories about my mom, what a resilient, what an awesome, amazing person she was and how dedicated she was as a wife, as a partner, as a friend. It's really cool. It makes me feel really good. On the flip side, I. Got to find out certain things about my father, um, that I didn't know.

And there were many horrible things which I will share it over the course of this program as I often do. But one of the things was, is that my father, my mother and my, my aunt shared with me a story that. Her family would go, um, every year, like a lot of, um, a lot of families do on the east coast or especially like Philadelphia, New York city, New Jersey areas.

They go to like the Jersey shore. I know there's a very famous television show about all that and all the shenanigans that go on, but there's also a really nice part [00:23:00] where just normal families go. Right. And, uh, so Jersey shore, they were at like a little beach house for a week and stay. And there was like a vacation that had happened with the family.

And it was like when my father was like 18 or 19 and he and my mother were dating something like that 18, 19 20, and my mother had this like sneaky spidey sense sort of thing. And I was like, where's Jack, what's he doing? And she went down to the vacation house from Philadelphia and showed up on the doorstep of the vacation home and said to my aunt where's Jack.

For the duty to know my father's name is John, but he goes by Jack where's Jack. And my aunt was like, I don't know. And I don't want to get in the middle of it. Like just kind of like, oh boy, here's the angry girlfriend. And, uh, and my father was off with another girl that he had met and that's why my mother came down.

She couldn't get ahold of him and she knew his Shannon again. So what I had found out and he was why I'm sharing this is I had found out that my father was having a flare. And relationships with other women while he was courting. [00:24:00] My mother, not just married, but before in the courting process and the dating process, he was having other girlfriends because he was completely incapable of being faithful and look infidelities.

It happens, but a serial infidelity in serial adulterer, much like our friend Michelle was sharing about her father, um, is a thing. And it's also a very big, uh, um, trait of, or a very common trait of the, um, of the narcissist and sociopath sort of thing, because they always want that attention and this and this and this and this and shiny new things, shiny new objects, Feb, shiny new objects.

I don't know. So it's a lot to swallow. So it was very interesting that he says, oh, and it's also her fault too, because I don't see how that is because it was such a, it had been going on for so long at that point. But let's dive in more. I mean, you know, all, these are the layers I get into like, you know, two to three paragraphs in, and I'm having enemy, I've spoken the whole, you know, I've taken up all your time and we're not even there yet.[00:25:00]

Oh boy. I feel mommy was not always her own person for summary. She seemed to be on her own track, her own focus. I suspect the cause of that was mommy wanted something else, perhaps the quote, see stories about the princess life effected her. I do not know for certain, I don't know what sea stories are, but maybe y'all can Google that and I'll know, they'll know what a sea story is, but, um, wow.

She was on her own track. So I'm somebody who likes a strong woman. I like somebody who has their act together. I might not always choose those partners in my life, but it is definitely something that I'm interested in. But I know that that is not traditional sort of that time period of American life, you know?

Suzy [00:26:00] homemaker or whatever they say, you know, brothers will help her. I don't, I don't know whatever, play a very pleasant fill sort of thing. I don't know. Um, but it seems that my father might have been threatened by her. I mean, that's clearly what he's saying. Uh, because she is on her own track and her own focus.

I don't really know. Was she not, um, uh, doting him enough for his, a massive narcissistic sociopath, sociopathic ego who knows? Um, wow. Oh boy. Okay. This is very direct. I do not believe in my heart that your mother was evil. I do think she was quote misguided in some things, but her intents were never evil to anyone that is not the picture I have of mommy in my mind.

And certainly not the picture of the woman. Yes, there are some things I do not know about mommy. I always thought I knew her, but must admit that is not correct, but for our purposes here, I want you to know that mommy is a [00:27:00] good woman. She always wanted the best for you and quote. And I think for me also, there were.

I think for me, she always wanted the best for you. And I think for me also, she only fell into her adventures out of what I believe was a sense of desperation with control. One thing I do know was that mommy always wanted control of everything. Ha just see her start her characteristic, I guess, or yeah.

Wow. One thing I do know was that mommy wanted quote, control over everything. Ha just her characteristic, I guess. I think it is important. You know this about mommy and that someone close to her like me, that doesn't my father tells you this exclamation point. I do indeed think mommy was under some kind of.

Whether it was the adoption or money or whatever it was. I think she was [00:28:00] under a perceived pressure. I use the term quote perceived because I think she was the recipient of a reel of real bad vibes from Regan Bach and Margie temperament. This is just my opinion, as I have no real facts to support this.

Or to support this theory, but in spite of what you hear and read, you will note that I have not said anything bad about mommy to anyone. I am just as confused as you are about her conduct. Remember this fact, mommy loves you very much. I would never do anything knowingly or conscientiously to harm you.

And I believe to harm me. I just wanted to share these sentiments with you about mommy. It is important. You know, this well bumper I'm off to write another letter and hit the books. Hopefully you are doing the same right. Soon. Visit sooner much love X, X. Oh, ELL daddy.

Um, [00:29:00] woo. Oh man. That is a, um, Wow. That is, that is, that's a doozy right there. So I'm going to give a little background. So this is November, 1994, and I think at this time, so, uh, like I said, my father was trying to get this, um, uh, this appeal happening and I believe at around this time, there was the.

Richland county Gazette sort of thing happening that was being put out in these letters and these little fake newspapers that were made. Um, and clearly they were like coming from my father, but they were talking about, uh, the, uh, detective David mass more and suggesting these things have affairs with my mother.

And then the prosecutor, James J. Mayer Jr. Uh, wanting things for political motives. There was all this nonsense. I'm going to have to find these so I can read them on the program because they were really fascinating because he tried to get this [00:30:00] appeal and then there's all these things coming out that are happening.

And they are clearly his doing by the way. And I believe also at this time, my uncle, my father's brother, Charles, or CJ, as he was known by my mother. And he was also my mother's best friend and my godfather. Ask me when the last time I have spoken to him. Well, it's every time that I tried to call him or get ahold of him, he doesn't talk to me.

Um, but he's my godfather. So for those of you that are good Catholics, when you take that oath to be a godfather of someone, um, and look after them through thick and thin, no matter what, till death do us part, but not really. Um, some people don't take that as seriously as others. So that's a very interesting thing.

So I never really hear from him at all. He works for the Navy. Um, and I guess I can talk about on this program cause you know what, screw it. I did talk to him during COVID because my father had COVID in prison as some of you know, and, um, I was checking on him and I did call him to say this. And then I called him back later.

Cause it [00:31:00] was during COVID and I was drinking at that time. As you guys know, I've been sober for a year and a half, but you know, during COVID everybody kind of went off the rails. I am not exempt from that back. Um, and, uh, yeah, I called him and I think I let him have it. And I was trying to get a rise out of him.

Cause I'm like, you don't even give me any emotion. Um, because every time I communicate with him, he's like, oh, what's going on? And he's not like, he's not like, well, let's go. We don't do, he doesn't do that. He's like, well, who's cool. And who's opening the little Hills. You forget to corals junior rolled through in California.

He literally asked me that one time. Oh, corals Jr. Makes a good burger. First of all, I don't eat fast. And, um, yeah. Uh, no, I don't get to Carl's Jr. That's not what I want to talk about. Um, I don't know. I look, I'm sitting here making fun of it and, and I, there is a little bit of anger with my family. Of course, my birth family, because of just me being the adult and then me being the child that took the role of adult and them acting like a bunch of children that just ran away.

But again, I always, I talked about the [00:32:00] beginning of the program, the resentment and the sort of things that you carry in life. You don't want to, you don't want to carry those resentments. You just kind of go, you know, look, we're all human. We all have flaws. And, and a murder happened and people lost their fucking minds.

Let's just keep it real. So in that note, there was this rich, there's this thing that my uncle had come out with and said that he saw my mother three days after she was murdered. She came to his office in Washington, DC. She confessed to him that she was part of a baby selling rate. Gold smuggling ring with the Chinese and all these, her friends were involved and all this stuff, all that, just this nonsense is crazy nonsense.

So my father's obviously planning this season. I ended up finding out and I'll probably talk about this in another episode later on the program. And I'll talk about with somebody who's more of a special. Where there were certain things that my father did with his course of control over his brother and sister.

And so I think that my father influenced my uncle and looked, my uncle worked for the department in the Navy. He was a nuclear submarine, um, uh, like systems [00:33:00] analyst. So his, he had like top secret clearance and it was like real like Tom Clancy, shit that he was involved in like, like legit. And he was stationed in Wales and Wales was a big Naval submarine place for the United States or base for the United States.

A lot of you know, that, uh, if you know your sort of logistics in the world, um, and yeah, so he had all the security. So he making up these things, I think, you know, obviously it's like mind control sort of stuff, uh, because the abuse. Which I ended up finding out as an abuser or the person that has this coercive control over you, whether it's your brother or your lover or your, um, or, you know, sister, father, mother, boyfriend, whatever, girlfriend, whatever it is.

Um, there is this course of control that these people have or them, and it, it has to do, it's linked always to some sort of trauma, whether they put them through that trauma or they bring up that trauma every time that they talk to them, it's really, really crazy. It's uh, it's, it's very insidious. [00:34:00] And it's, it's shocking.

So point for saying, this is my uncle was literally. Risking his, his clearance and his, uh, you know, in his reputation, in the Navy, uh, to write these letters and, and say these stories that were absolutely 100% fabricated. And we now know that because my father is like admitted to pushing my mother and she hit her head cause he was coming out where her with the knife and that's what happened.

I mean, that's obviously not the truth, but, uh, you know, so it's just so we know it's completely fabricated and that she was dead. And so it's interesting because I watched this, this film called bad. Uh, recently, and it is a documentary about this woman. I think her name is Sariah or something. She owned a vegan restaurant in Manhattan that was really popular as celebrities.

All these people are very amazing vegan restaurant and she, um, had all these, uh, you know, you had involved this guy and she, this whole moves very beautiful. She involved this very dumpy looking guy in her life. Look, whatever people. Um, but [00:35:00] he, and they got married, but they weren't like in a romantic marriage, but it was a marriage of convenience and he claimed he had money, but he cleaned, he's a secret agent and all this stuff.

And she had her do this wacky stuff. And granted like some of the things she did, she, but w. All I had to say this. She was clearly under a spell and I feel that these people that have these coercive control things and look, we know we spoke to Tara Newell. We're speaking to Deborah Newell. We, we we've talked to psychologists in this program like Dr.

Dennis Devin. . We are talking to people. I just was on a podcast called strictly stalking, which my episode is coming out soon. Um, But we're talking about like the chorus of control and the manipulation that these people have when they violate you and whatever that is, whatever that violation looks like, whether they were molesting you or whether they were just abusing you or whether they were just had this, like, hold on you.

I mean, look at like financial crimes, right? Which is what this bad vegan is about. She stiffed her old waiting staff in the restaurant went under and all this it's very unfortunate, really unfortunate for the people that were the collateral damage, like the workers that depended on their wages. You [00:36:00] know, it's not cool when you don't pay people.

Um, for those of you listening on payment, um, just kidding. Uh, No seriously, there is a lot of, uh, a lot to be said about that and the way that they can manipulate people. And my father has like a, it's like a spell that you're under. It's like a voodoo or which doctor, you know, it's like this, oh man, it's bad.

It's really bad. And, um, It's a real thing. And so anyways, they were putting out these like Richland county, gazettes the Mansfield Gazette, like all these like printed up on a printer thing and putting them in people's mailboxes. I don't know who was doing it. My father was a massive mail campaign to smear the prosecutors, smear the detective to smear my mother.

And then so obviously. All that to say this, he's obviously talking about all of this and trying to pretend he's a good guy. And he's looking out for my feelings in case I read these things. He has, you know, his way of him distancing himself from these activities that he clearly was perpetrating by [00:37:00] the way.

I mean just what I think. And as an adult, and again, for those of you that don't know, I have not read these letters since I was a kid and, and a child doesn't understand this, but it plants those seeds, the seeds of manipulation and, and. Th deception and it's gaslighting. And it's what you thought of your mother, but I'm just protecting you and all this stuff.

And this sorta got this magnanimous tone to it. It's just ridiculous. It's just bullshit is what it is. And it's also really heartbreaking to see this because this is a man who sang this to his son, whose mother that he murdered and. And then the card, which goes hand in hand with some think there they're high and mighty some act high and mighty.

There are sons that are unbearable. There are sums that are sons that are kind of flighty. Some are very, very wise and some act high and mighty. I mean,[00:38:00]

I guess as I listened to. That's a story as I read these to you guys. And as I started to think about like what I was going through, so I was whatever, 1994. So it was like 14 50, 6, 16. I was 16 years old, almost 17. So I would have been a junior in high school. Um, and I was class president that year. I would like to class president, which was pretty cool.

There was all these things. And this was around the time that he was, like I said, he was going through an appeal and my father was going through an appeal for the murder of my mother for his conviction. And also he had wanted me to, uh, I, I did, I gave D I gave blood for a DNA sample and, um, they were exhuming my mother's body to test the DNA, to see if it was her body, because there was all these things that came up like her eye color was wrong.

And look, I have very blue eyes and I have my mother's eyes. Unmistakable and, um, that they were brown or whatever now, you [00:39:00] know, spoiler alert. But when I look at the case file in a murder Amancio with detective Lieutenant, uh, early, you know, David mesomorph, um, you know, her eyes were like bloodshot because she was bludgeoned in the back of the head.

So, um, that's maybe why they were brown. I don't know. Um, in our body, weight was off and all these things and. There was doubt. There was cast that I don't think could be cast nowadays because we have so such advances in forensic science. The age of the internet, all these things, communication with different departments and things of that nature, but it is, um, you know, he was trying to plant these little seeds of doubt to see if he could get me to rescind my testimony.

I mean, that's, this is all this is about, by the way, just to make it clear. This is all about getting me to rescind my testimony. Say that I was coerced because I was the person that put him in prison because. My testimony, rather, my father put himself in prison. Let's be very clear about that. I've said that ad nauseum, but [00:40:00] without what I ended up finding out with, without my testimony, he would have, um, possibly walked free because everything was very circumstantial.

Uh, there was no blood, there was no hair. There was no fi like there wasn't a lot of that or any of that rather, um, like in the house, the car, from what I understand. Um, so. Me rescinding my testimony. Would've let him walk out of prison. Scot-free

so I guess, I guess my sort of takeaway from this is I'm very glad that that didn't happen. That I didn't let myself be manipulated and let's just face it. You know, my adopted parents, George and Susan were very key in. In and they are rubber. They let the people, the investigators come in and ask me all these questions.

Like did Dave take me to a bar. It was he giving me beer and all that [00:41:00] stuff. And though, no, no police officer was not getting me drunk at age 11. Um, but all of these things, because we went to a restaurant that was a bar, but it like in Ohio, like every restaurant has a bar. Like every restaurant has a bar, bowling alleys have bars.

Um, So it's yeah, it's just really sketchy and I'm really grateful. Anyways. I'm really grateful. I did not rescind my testimony. I did not let this man walk free because he, who knows if I had seen this and I might've said something different, I did do my best. And I did give a benefit of the doubt to what I had seen with the quarters.

And my father, uh, George took me to, to the place. It was like an Akron, Ohio or something. We got up really early and I gave this blood and then we waited and all of that. But because I was like, well, I'll do this and we'll say, cause it was not our body. Then we got a bigger problem, probably the hand, um, which I believe ultimately they, uh, they tested the [00:42:00] DNA of my mother's sister, but not mine.

So I might not even be my mother's son and I'm sure. And my father has said that before, and I'm sure I'm going to find a leather or leather, a letter, one of these days that says that. I will tell you 100%. I am, I am my mother's son. Um, for the simple fact that I look like her and that my mannerisms, when people who knew my mother who have come back into my life via Tik TOK or whatever, and they knew her, they're like, oh my God.

You're just like Doreen, which is also a really cool thing to hear because I loved my mother very much. And I'm glad to know that I'm so much like her and not like my father that.

That said, um, what do you guys think? I mean, look at the end of the day, here's the takeaway that I have for you. We all, no matter what, and just like this woman writing to me earlier, uh, you know, had to deal with her, her father being a serial womanizer, a serial [00:43:00] adulterer. Um, we have all been through our stuff and we just hope at the end of the day, that we're better versions of our parents and our parents do go through these things.

But my father literally gaslighting me in this letter is so horrific and so terrible. Um, that it's beyond the pale, but pretty much everything that man ever writes is beyond the pale, because it's always got some sort of agenda tied to it because it's all about him not taking accountability for his actions.

So look, we are all flawed human beings. We all go through our own shit stuff, whatever it is, we're not. But we sure as hell aren't killing our partners and blaming it on them. Um, but I like to hear your thoughts on this episode, because this is a, you know, a pretty personal episode to me and I, again, I opened these letters and I don't know what's going to be in them sometimes.

They're like, oh, that's nothing. And then sometimes it's really, really very valuable. So. I think it's all valuable information for you guys. I knew what really [00:44:00] helps me in my process and what I'm going through as an adult. And as I move on in my life and as I move past murder and, um, you know, that's, that's it, we're all here to learn a little bit of something and be better humans, I think at the end of the day.

Oh, well, on that note, I'm Collier Landry and this is Moving Past Murder, thanks y'all

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