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Murder, Mayhem and Moving On - Boyle Murder Trial Judge Tells All! - Pt.2

Part 2 of 2: An Interview with retired Richland County Common Pleas Court Judge, the Honorable James Henson

Revisiting the past is never easy, especially when history is marred by the traumatic experience of having your father murder your mother. However, it can also yield valuable insight and lead to reconciliation and healing.

In this special two-part episode of Moving Past Murder, host Collier Landry reunites with the judge from his father's murder trial. Now retired after serving over 35 years as seated judge of Richland County Common Pleas Court, the Honorable James Henson, has seen many court cases come and go. However, one trial stands above them all, forever in the annals of Richland County and Central Ohio history.

The Boyle murder trial was a month-long media sensation that gripped not only the city of Mansfield but the entire tri-state area surrounding Ohio and even national media coverage. The trial was televised daily, and eager citizens rushed home to huddle around their television screens to keep up with the "real-life soap opera."

Being the prosecution's star witness, Collier was never allowed to watch the trial. As an adult, he never really cared to. In this rare interview, Collier learns stunning new information from Judge Henson, including:

  • Collier finds out his father had a girlfriend that actually fled Ohio and moved to Florida in order to escape him and his madness. His father grew angry and had someone trash her apartment and urinate all over her wardrobe and house.

  • His father’s pregnant girlfriend burst out at his father during the trial after she realized he was not planning on moving into the house he purchased where he buried Collier’s mother’s body.

  • Collier discusses how Judge Henson’s words after his father’s conviction, allowed Collier to heal and move on with his life in a positive way.

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AFTER THE EPISODE LIVE Q&A with host Collier Landry! TUESDAY'S 11 am PT/2 pm ET on IG LIVE @collierlandry

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APPLE: *This podcast contains colorful language that some of our listeners might consider NSFW...even when working from home.

Judge Henson: [00:00:00] Right.

Collier Landry: Do you during the trial, I know that there were other girlfriends or, or people that had testified. Yes. What was that like? Because it established a pattern.

Judge Henson: It dis it established a pattern, particularly when the girl woman had, uh, gone to Florida to get away from him. And he [00:00:30] had sent a friend of his down.

To essentially break into her apartment and mess up the clothes, you know, put her clothes in the, uh, bathtub and urinate on him and that sort of thing. that was that just painted him paint a poor picture of, of the, your dad

testimony continued today in the most [00:01:00] notorious criminal trial in Richland county.

Collier Landry: Dr. John Boyle is accused of killing his wife, Maureen and burying her body in the basement of his new home in Erie, Pennsylvania. The 12 year old son finally took the stand. As I heard a scream, I heard a


was about this loud.

We, the jury find the defendant guilty when I was 12 years old, my testimony sent my father to prison for murdering my. This podcast serves as a type of therapy and reconciliation for myself. And it is my hope that it helps [00:01:30] anyone who has experienced deception, betrayal, and dark trauma. I'm Collier Landry and this is Moving Past Murder.

Hey movers. Welcome back to another episode of moving past murder. I'm your host. Collier Landry and what's going on on. Ah, another Friday in the books here we are. Welcome back to another episode. This is part two of my episode with [00:02:00] Richland county common plea court. Judge, the honorable James Henson. He was the judge at my father's murder trial for murdering my mother.

Um, and he's retired, sorry. He's still not active, but he was the longest serving Richland county commonplace court judge in history like 35 years, I think is what he said last episode. Anyways, this is part two of that episode where I discover more. more interesting facts about my father and the trial that I didn't know, because I was only there [00:02:30] for two days cuz I was testifying.

Wasn't allowed to watch it didn't really know what happens. So in this episode, we're gonna discover a little bit more about an instance that happened in the courtroom. When my father's girlfriend discovered some info that she didn't like now, this was his mistress. That was at the time of my mother's murder, nine months pregnant with my half sister.

And, um, you know, she got looped up into some nonsense by way of my father manipulating her, obviously. And. [00:03:00] She had to go to the trial. She was a new mother. And, uh, so judge Henson is gonna share a little bit of info about that in this episode, but I want to give a shout out to all of you who have come here via TikTok.

I've been posting a lot of videos lately. You guys have seen. Of my trip back to Mansfield, where I got to go inside my old house, where I met up with Dave mess Moore, and we had a little chat, uh, where I get to show you guys the courthouse actually, which is where, uh, all of this action took place with judge Henson.

And for those of you that are subscribing to be [00:03:30] on Patreon, we have our guest meet and greet this month, September 20th, 4:30 PM. Pacific 7:30 PM. Eastern. On Tuesday, September 20th, live meet and greet where you guys get to ask me your Q and A's check it out. I do one every single month. It's really, really cool.

You guys get to ask me anything you want for an hour on zoom, no holds barred. So it is a new and really exciting way. I share some pictures. I share some family stories. [00:04:00] I got all kinds of cool stuff that I share there. You guys wanna check it out. It's Landry. Anyways, enough of that spiel.

So this week's listener comment. I wanna pull again from YouTube. Like I did last week, this one comes from pirate podcasts on YouTube and it says your dad was my grandmother's doctor for like 20 years. She swore by him. She absolutely loved. I'm sorry for what happened and what you, Ms. Doreen and you guys, and your family went through, you're a strong man be [00:04:30] safe, and God bless you.

I couldn't even imagine. Well, you know, as we talked about with judge Henson last week, you know, I was very curious about, there were so many people in the community that had a lot of disbelief that my father could do what he did, and we discussed it in the previous. How having a doctor of his caliber or rather perceived caliber because he, I guess manufactured a lot of his, uh, accolades before coming to Mansfield with my mother.

But [00:05:00] how, that was a big deal coming to Richland county, coming to Mansfield as a doctor and contributing to the community, joining the community, how excited everybody was. So the fact that a doctor could commit this horrific murder of his wife was really a big deal for people. So, um, that's what really added to the media circus.

So, yeah, your grandmother was one of, many of my father's patients. I think they said at the time of his arrest, that he had seen something like 80,000 patients in total, over the years that he was working in Mansfield, which was like six [00:05:30] years or something. So, um, it's really interesting. And, uh, and also really sad because those people believed in him.

Right. But I'm really excited to have judge Henderson back for part two. We're gonna discuss even more details. It's not as heavy as last week's episode, but it is, it does have some really good insight. We do learn some. Insight into my father's shenanigans and things that went down in the courtroom that nobody ever knew about.

And that's kind of really cool stuff. And, and again, it's really amazing that judge Henson gave me his time in [00:06:00] retirement, took time away from his doggy and his grandchildren and showed up for us and, and gave me a great interview. I'm so grateful for it. And I'm so happy. Then I sold him those roller blades almost 25 years ago.

I played against sports because I obviously made a really good impression. Actually. I made a really good impression by being a really good witness. Here is the second part of my interview with the honorable retired judge, James Henson.

[00:06:30] It's interesting. When you look at least for me, when I look back and even just hearing what you're telling me, how many things have to fall into. To get a conviction. Right. And that's the American justice system is that's. Yeah. It's innocent until proven guilty. Mm-hmm and I think that's something that's very unique to our justice system, as flawed as it is, but all of these things, I mean, if you figure I don't testify and he doesn't [00:07:00] testify, he probably walks.

Judge Henson: Not with what they had this case. No, they had, they, they had him ringing at jackhammer. They had him ringing cold storage. They had all this, they had him telling he was gonna put a basketball court down there. They had all that evidence when it was the impossibility, but if he had just not done anything left or [00:07:30] laying on the floor, Or if you'd taken, dump her body off of the side of the road somewhere, they wouldn't have had that evidence.

They just wouldn't have had that at all. Did you hear the story that what your little baby sister said to the woman was taken care of her?

Collier Landry: No.

Judge Henson: She said she'd been with, uh, with Susan Moore for two or three weeks. She says, daddy hit mommy in the head with a hammer and wrapped her [00:08:00] from a blanket. We could let that in because you can let in race, just something that's said without suggestion.

This was said, Susan said we never talked about the case at all, but she, the little girl said those words, but we couldn't let it in because. That, that it was too, too suggestive. [00:08:30] Yeah. Yeah. And that's of course there were, listen, people were listening to your testimony. Wondered was this, any of this suggested to him and you, you were so, so plain.

And what I wanna say, uh, plainly telling the truth from your standpoint that you weren't coached nobody. Nobody told you what to. No, they, didn't not at all. If, if the head of you would've said, oh no, no, Hey, wait a minute. I'm I'm the man over here.

Collier Landry: I, well, I, I, because I [00:09:00] was angry and I knew what happened and I knew that I wanted to get justice for my mother.

And I knew that I was the lynchpin because at the, you know, before the trial obvious. It was treated as a missing person's case until Dave mess Moore got involved. And it was until I said to, you know, I got Dave to my school because it was a safe place and I was able to tell him everything. He had no backstory of what was going on, because I couldn't say [00:09:30] anything in front of my grandmother.

And when she went at the time to call my father, because she was angry, he was in our house. Okay. When I said, give me your business card, I will talk to you. And I got my principal Lynn Reinach to call him the next day. And he came down to the school and I was able to tell him about Sherry the, you know, the, uh, all of my father's behavior, his proclivity for violence, all of that.

It, it started then because he said, that's right, mommy took a little vacation and I wasn't gonna [00:10:00] let him get away with that. But I. Jim Mayer telling me you don't have to do this. And I said, I think I said to him over my dead body. Cause my mother used to say, I used to use my mother's expressions. Yeah.

So my mother would say, well over my dead body and I said it over my dead body. Oh gosh. Yeah. Because, because it was the right thing to do. But I was also terrified because this man's a monster. He's been a monster my whole life. And now I have to face him down [00:10:30] and knowing. If he goes free, I will probably be re remanded back to his custody and he will torture me the rest of my life.

If not put me in a ditch someday. Yes.

Judge Henson: Did you know

PE Hopkins? You remember PE Hopkins? I do. She was your mom dad's neighbor. Well, she had been my neighbor before she moved into that neighborhood right down the streets. Me in [00:11:00] Coleman road. Well, I got a call at home from PE Hopkins. I picked up the phone and without saying another word, she says, Jack kill Marine.

I says, what are you talking about? She says, Jack killed the re, tell me what you're talking about. PE tell me, she says,[00:11:30]

She's not over there at that house. She would never leave her children with that woman, her mother-in-law, she, she would never do that and she's not there. And the children here and her mother-in-law is there. I says, this is, this is in the morning of the day that she got. And I says, okay, all right, uh, call the police and tell 'em once you know, something like that.

She [00:12:00] says, I'm calling you. I says, I'm the judge here. I can, you know, just, I, I can't do anything to that information except tell somebody that you told me that's hearsay. They're not gonna listen to it anyway, but I believe that your dad thought that nobody, nobody, not the neighbors, not anybody. What? He, he, he's such a wonderful guy that no one, whatever, believe he would do a thing like that, he couldn't believe it on himself.

He didn't believe [00:12:30] it. He just couldn't believe that it happened and

everybody suspected him immediately. And he assumed that nobody would ever suspect him.

Collier Landry: Yeah, because I called yeah.

Judge Henson: You saw him in the courtroom? How much did he weigh when you saw him in the courtroom? If you remember [00:13:00]

Collier Landry: probably 190 pounds.

Judge Henson: No. he weighed a lot less than that. Really? When he, when he was arrested in Pennsylvania and brought back to the courthouse, he weighed 202. Yeah. He weighed a, either 146 or 164 at.

Peoples are wow. That funny guy, no way he could pick that woman up. He had been Ling up. Did you work out with [00:13:30] him? He was, he was bustling up and he was really strong in 19, early 90, 80,

Collier Landry: 89. Yeah. He was bigger. Much bigger. Yeah. Yeah. And

Judge Henson: he sat in jail for a long time and of course you don't get you don't.

You just don't get found in jail food. It just doesn't happen. and, and he, he just, he was saying to his truth, look at me. There's no way I can handle her. And he was saying somebody else, somebody else had to do it because [00:14:00] I couldn't do it. And that's, that's where people got the idea that either the chiropractor or, or what his name, uh, I don't remember what Mr.

Davis was and this young man that they must had to be involved. And maybe they really wanted, was guilty. Some concrete outta that basement was founded. Mr. Davis's backyard. Yeah. Your dad insisted he take that there [00:14:30] to throw the suspicion off of him. Yes. Some kind of friend , but at that time he was just grasping for straws because.

He had already done some really, really guilty looking things. And, uh, and then all of a sudden he realized the police are gonna find this out. We gotta do something about it. They gotta spread the blame or, or make it look like somebody else did this. [00:15:00] Well, we didn't work.

Collier Landry: I mean, it's unbelievable.

Judge Henson: it is. It's that that's, that's exactly right. And that's what the juror was saying. It was unbelievable till he testified and proved that it was completely believable, completely believable. Like the gentleman said, I don't know if I could have found him guilty if he hadn't [00:15:30] test.

I know some of the other people could cause they, they had heard it, but he, he won some direct debit. He wanted him to admit his guilt before he was gonna find him guilty. Well, like I, the stand and essentially admitted, he admitted he was guilty, but, but, but, but he didn't, he didn't put her on his floor and he Jack hammer it up.

But of course the evidence was, in fact, he did. He did. And [00:16:00] when people started suspecting him, he, he just like, I can't believe this. I cannot believe that these people whom I thought was my friends are, are believing that I could do something like this.

They, uh, as they say, the cat was on the bank.

Collier Landry: Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember talking to me after you [00:16:30] sentenced my father? When I came to your chambers? I

Judge Henson: remember you reading there, but I don't remember specifically. No.

Collier Landry: Cause you talked to me about forgiveness and I remember you had your little Stevens ministers pin on your robe or your jacket at the time.

And you talked to me about forgiveness and it was something.

Sorry, I'm getting a little emotional, but I just [00:17:00] remember you were saying something to the effect of you can't forgive. If you can't forget. And you were saying how, how essentially you were explaining that you had explained to. What that you had found? My dad, my dad was found guilty. You were, you had done the sentencing, but essentially in that very key, pivotal moment in my life, [00:17:30] you said to me, essentially, call your, you need to find a way to not let this control you.

Judge Henson: I hope I said that. Cuz I try to say, I really hope I said that exact word. I know of cases, many cases where people have hung on and hung on and hung become bitter, become Ang angrier and angrier. And they don't, they don't even start to get over it. They [00:18:00] don't typically ever get over it because, because they have, they don't want to , they're, they're angry.

They have a right to be angry and, and that person he's in jail. He's not, he's not paying. He wanna be dead. Oh, come on. That's that's that's beyond that's for somebody else to decide not the Amish people and the Mennonite people that have come to my court. [00:18:30] They will not, they will not

so much. I'm being a little bit obtuse. They will not, not forgive. They immediately choose to forgive, not forget, but forgive and then go on living their life. Not as if it didn't happen, but [00:19:00] the person's forgiven. And if, if somebody else wants to judge him, that's fine. But not. I've several situations where those folks Mennonites and, and Amish people been killed, run over by the buggy.

They immediately immediately with their Bishop go to the person that caused the tragedy and forgive them. [00:19:30] Cause they know that they're not, they may not be doing that person. They're doing themselves good. They're not going allowed to destroy their life because somebody else's life's been damaged or destroyed.

And it's, it's a Christian, it's a Christian way to look at it. It's, it's not the only way to look at it, but it's the only San way to look at.

Collier Landry: Well, I think for me as a 12 year old child, [00:20:00] I think for me as a 12 year old child, what you were really trying. What you're trying to instill is me, is that you can't forget.

Mm-hmm , you're never gonna forget that your dad killed your mom. you're never gonna forget that. You're never forget about testifying in this. You're never forget about everything that led up to this, the investigation, all of these things. , but you're going to have to find that way to move on with your life.

And this program is called moving past murder. And it's about my process of moving past something like [00:20:30] this in my life. Mm-hmm and to show people that you have to forgive, and I wouldn't have been able to do and to lead the life that I've led without doing that. I had to come to that.

Judge Henson: I appreciate that very much.

You know, let me tell you a funny thing that happened, how funny things do happen during trials we're on lunch break. The [00:21:00] courtroom is now filled back up and there was no room in the courtroom behind the bar. My Dar, who we've talked to was 16 at the. And they had said that Sherry would be testifying after lunch.

She wanted to be there for that. so I had one of the deputies tell me whole front, they kept the front row [00:21:30] inside the bar open because safety, safety. I said, can you lay, arrange for her to sit right there in the front row there? So sure. So she's 16 years old, gorgeous girl walks in your courtroom and sets down.

Now the jurors have heard not the juror audience have heard the cherry boy necessary accountable. You don't testify after lunch.[00:22:00]

As soon as she walks in, says down, she says, they're Sherry, they're Sherry. They're Sherry. Now I wasn't in the courtroom. PE Hopkins was

the whole room was a buzz and you know, oh man, there's just let's work. This O that they've all heard about here. Thanks. Got up from her where she was sitting, came up court wasn't in session. She came [00:22:30] up and hugged Kristen and turned to the big audience who says, this is not Sherry Campbell. This is judge's daughter.

And they went, oh, I mean, oh my God. I mean, It was I wasn't in the courtroom. I wish I had a been well, if I'd been in courtroom, it would've happened because they were weren't able do that. Sure, sure. But she, Chris and Herm saying, Hey Sherry. Oh, [00:23:00] what? Whoa. Oh, no peg said no, no, no. So there was a little light moment in there, but when Sherry did come in the courtroom, it was the same thing.

Press my daughters. They, uh, so Frank girl should, you know, and she was a little biter and , I can see 'em looking at her. Look at my daughter, probably the jurors were just [00:23:30] not jurors, the, uh,

Collier Landry: audience, the gallery. They were, they were

Judge Henson: flabbergasted. You know, this little woman here is the one caused all this trouble.

Yeah. Right. she didn't of course. But. She was involved in it. Mm mm. Right up to her, my teeth.

Collier Landry: Yeah. She was just another victim. I mean, she was 27 years old, I think at the time I was she

Judge Henson: that old.

Collier Landry: I don't think 26 or [00:24:00] 27, she was, she was like 27 tops, maybe 28. I, you know, I thought she was

Judge Henson: like 21 or

Collier Landry: 20. I don't know.

No, she was, no, she was like, she was like 27 or 28 at the time. But I mean, still

Judge Henson: compared to my daughter who looked like she was 16, she looked younger

Collier Landry: Yoda. She looked, she was cuz she's very small frame. She's a very small woman. And you know, I think that she. You know, she had bought to the fairy tale that I'm gonna marry a doctor.

It's gonna be this [00:24:30] wonderful life, you know? And I, and a lot of people do try to cast blame on her or try to excoriate her for her behavior. And yeah, I mean, I'm sure we're, we're all not perfect people, but I look at her as. Even though I had anger with her because I'm like, how did you not know about my mom?

I never thought she was involved in killing my mother. I thought that she might have known and turned a blind eye, but again, she was young, she was pregnant. She had [00:25:00] just come out of a bad marriage, you know? Um, she was looking for a new opportunity. And, and my father was it. And then my father sold her on a bill of goods,

Judge Henson: a golden opportunity, like how many girls in their mid twenties with a couple children can smack a medical.

Doctor's making hundreds of thousands of dollars and promises a wonderful. You can understand, [00:25:30] you can understand how she got caught off. And, uh, a hundred percent it said it really sad. It was really something when she called in a, a name in court. And that was the first time I believe I say, I believe, I don't know what everybody else believes.

That was the first time she realized she'd been DUP.

Collier Landry: Do you during the trial, I know that there were other girlfriends or, or people that had [00:26:00] testified. Yes. What was that like? Because it established a pattern.

Judge Henson: It dis it established a pattern, particularly when the girl. Woman had, uh, gone to Florida to get away from him.

And he had sent a friend of hiss down there to essentially break into her apartment and mess up the clothes, you know, put her clothes in the, uh, bathtub and urinate on him. And that sort of thing. [00:26:30] That was that just painted him paint a poor picture of, of your.

Collier Landry: So I, so it wasn't him that did that. He hired somebody.


Judge Henson: Yes. I don't know if he hired somebody, but somebody else went down there and did it, and then they, they testified to him. But, you know, he did some really, really strange things. He had told the woman in Florida, [00:27:00] Hey, I can do where I please. So what he did, he went to OT Smith studio. Put on a Navy uniform raising this rank.

one level got Otto's girl or 19 year old girl set by. I'm gonna take a beautiful picture and had that and sent it down to her and said, see, I can do whatever. I please I'm marrying this girl. She's the daughter of the head of surgery at Ohio state university. And, and you think I [00:27:30] can't do what I tell you.

I'm gonna do look at. We're getting married. Did you ever hear that story before?

Collier Landry: I, I wasn't sure who it was or O Schmidt studio, but yes, somebody told me that story. Mm-hmm and I was just stunned, stunned. Right. Somebody told me that he put a, he actually took an ad, like an ad out in the Columbus, dispatch with it saying, announcing his engagement,

Judge Henson: the guy who went to Florida.[00:28:00]

Alleged that he was the one who had procured girlfriends for your dad, you know, that they were friends and he, he did whatever he is asked to do. And, and, uh, he says, that's, that's just what I, that's what I did or that's what I do, you know?

Collier Landry: Who was this guy?

Judge Henson: I don't know his name right now, but I know he's. He was, uh, they said he must have been involved because it wasn't [00:28:30] Davis. The chiropractor, the, the, yeah. Wasn't he was another young man. And, uh, he, he said after the trial, he said the prosecutor, why didn't you ask me more questions? So I could tell you what was really going.

Of course, Jim mayor, the prosecutor didn't want to blow his case outta the water. So he not knowing the answers to the questions he smartly didn't ask the question. You would never want ask the [00:29:00] question of a witness when you don't know the answer. Oh, because, uh, an answer can, it can just cause a mistrial.

It can cause the case just fall absolutely apart. So you, that's the reason you talked to your witness ahead of time, or at least you investigate everything as well as you can, so that, you know, the answers to the questions before you asked them. And, uh, so you didn't ask some of the questions that [00:29:30] that could have been asked.

It would've been, uh, explanatory somewhat, but questions weren't asked. And then of course, after the trial's over. Talks to the prosecutor about why didn't you ask me about this? Why didn't you ask me about that? He sat on the stand in whistles. It was a Eeries thing I'm sitting right beside and he said goes,

I mean, literally looking around the room, no, or [00:30:00] less begging the prosecutor. Me another question. He was all I on stand about 20 minutes. Huh? Should have been on stand all day, but he wasn. because they didn't know the answers. They didn't know what he'd do. And they didn't know what he'd say. If they asked the question and they, that being that's the case, they didn't know what task and didn't ask any questions about their interpersonal relationship.

It was a strange, strange moment or trial. From a [00:30:30] trial judge at that time, I had 12 years experience. I'd been a, it wasn't of my first rodeo. I'm sitting there saying this guy needs to be asked some questions. He literally, he actually said

all the time he was on the stand and then asked the question. He said, what? And I, I, I really got close to calling him down, you know, stop the silliness. But to him, it wasn't silliness. He was just saying, you know, [00:31:00] like raise his eyes, like, oh my heart, what? He's not asking me the questions. And he didn't

Collier Landry: because they were trying to like, not put themselves in a hole with the case, but he could have really offered some damning testimony to my father.

Judge Henson: Absolutely no doubt about it. He, he did offer damaging testimony, but he had, there was a lot more involved. They, they had a real history over years. And it was brought out just [00:31:30] wasn't that questions weren't asked the answers weren't given. Interesting.

Collier Landry: That is really interesting.

Judge Henson: yes, it is. It really is. It was part of, it was a high point of our low point depend how, which way you look at it in the trial, this guy who knows a great deal is not being asked the questions.

So we can't testify to what, whatever it was that, uh, he wanted to say. It's very interesting. You would [00:32:00] you put yourself in my position? This is very interesting. I'm sitting here like with you, I'm four feet away from this guy. What are, why are they devil? Is he doing up there whistling and looking around the courtroom?

And of course I can't, I can't interject and say. What do you want? What do you wanna tell the court? You know, cause that, wasn't my place. , I'd been a trial to the court where I was the judge and jury. [00:32:30] I might have done that. Why are you being so acting so silly on a witness stand? I couldn't do that in front of a jury.

Cause it's not a place to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Really completely duped. Wow.

Collier Landry: I mean, it's, you know, I, when you're dealing with a master manipulator and a narcissist and a sociopath, they can give into you of anything. I mean, my father, if you, you, I don't know if [00:33:00] you've seen the film of murder in Mansfield, but when he comes in the room, he's in a very jovial.

because he thinks that I'm making a film to help him get out of prison. Mm-hmm

Judge Henson: I can, I can preach of that.

Collier Landry: right. And I think that he, when I say to him ever since you murdered my mother, which is the first time I said it to him, Uhhuh, he, his whole demeanor changes and all the air gets sucked out of the room.

And [00:33:30] it's like, oh, this just got. And I think that he, you know, because he's such a narcissist, he just literally believed that that's what was happening. I mean, I know he believed that I never led him. I never told him no, dad I'm go. I always said, you'll have an opportunity to tell your story. Mm-hmm and that's what I gave him.

And I don't know if the, did he, he told his testimony in court was that she left and got into a. [00:34:00] He never talked about her falling and hitting her head or anything. Right? Mm-hmm he, he, he told a whole story about her getting out, throwing credit cards at him, leaving the house and walking down the driveway.

So for him to paint a whole different picture, 20 some 25, 26, 27 years later of what happened, it just shows the disconnect and the sociopathy and.

You're changing your [00:34:30] story again.

Judge Henson: yes. I, I admire you for what you've done and what you're continuing to do, but does he understand that he'll never be granted parole until he admits his complicity, his guilt? Cause they won't Gran. I mean until he comes and they may not grant it them, but they [00:35:00] would've granted it before.

Now if he had, cause he's done all the time, he would've ever done. If he's convicted of murder,

I sent this to 20 years of life in a year and a half for visa of Corps. That's 21 and a half years. That's been gone now for nine years. Yeah. And, and. I watch that film. I watch it very closely and he just can't do it. [00:35:30] He, he just cannot accept that. Ah, John Boyo would do such a thing as that. No, no way. No, no, absolutely not.

And of course we know

Collier Landry: difference. Well, he, I, I think he believes it. I'm. I think that he believes it. I think that he believes he didn't do it. I think he believes his story. Well,

Judge Henson: he, he has to, he told the story and you know, and I'm sure that you, the [00:36:00] experience you've come in contact with pathological liars.

Sure. Once they've told a story, they may change that story, but whoever they change it to is true. And the first story was true then, but now it's different. Cause. I'm looking at it differently. And, and the pathological iron doesn't count what anybody else thinks. It's only what they think that it's important.[00:36:30]

And I don't think he can live with himself. If all of a sudden he says, damn wish I hadn't gotten caught, but I sure of hell did it. You know, I, I don't think you could live with that.

Collier Landry: I don't know how he lives with himself, but , I

Judge Henson: appreciate that. Well, what I'm taking about you, you are living and you're doing well. You're, you're getting on with life making [00:37:00] and we all either do it or don't make our own way. And the people who refuse to not get over, but feel, or refuse to deal with a situation they never get on.

They never get over it. And they live lives of quiet desperation, or they try to get even somehow rather, and then they are, there was even evil as a person there casting. Wow. [00:37:30] You've done that. You've talked twice before you said wow. but that's exactly what a jury said. Wow.

Well, thank you. You're welcome. It's good. Talk to you.

Collier Landry: Yeah, I appreciate everything, judge Henson. Um, thank you so much for your time. Thank you to. Who who set

Judge Henson: this up? I, yes, I will thank her for that. She's a good girl. Good to talk to you. You take care. [00:38:00] Just talk to you too. Thank you so much. You are welcome.

Thank you. And thank you to Bob

Collier Landry: Lechner for hooking us up.

Judge Henson: right. Well, let's see Bob, but probably, uh, Tuesday morning and I'll say so you take care of yourself. Alright, thank you so much.

Collier Landry: Well, I think one of the things that really fascinates. About it really appeals to me about doing this podcast for you guys. And for myself is that [00:38:30] I get to discover and learn so much about my life. What happened when I was a child. The trial, the, the, the ancillary victims, people that I didn't have in a murder advancement, because certain people wouldn't participate right.

For legal reasons or personal reasons or whatever. I'm learning so much about my past. And about these things that have always these little questions that you have back in the back of your mind, right? [00:39:00] Like you grow up in living in these circumstances, but you don't ever really have these answers, like, look, my birth family, they don't have any correspondence with me for the most part.

Uh, like I said, My mother's side of the family and my SI father's side of the family pretty much abandoned me. When I, uh, when this all went down, I was remanded to the foster care system was orphaned and had to deal with all this myself and that sucked . But, you know, so when I get these little answers from people that aren't directly involved with my family that are community members or the judge from the [00:39:30] trial, or talking to Dave smore or talking to friends of people that reach out to me just because of this podcast.

Like when I ran into Debbie Allen at Westbrook country club, a couple of weeks ago, when I was back home in Mansfield, she shares some info and Bob Lechner and his wife who literally said, you should talk to James Henson retire, judge James Henson, they're friends. And that's how he's on the program. And it's, and it's these people that are all contributing to my sort of personal journey and my sort of personal [00:40:00] journey of discovery and discovering.

Who I am, where I come from, what happened because I was a kid it's I know it's probably hard to believe. It's hard for me to believe, but it happened like almost 30 years, like 30 years ago, all this happened and I'm still learning so much. It's like, I scratch the surface and it just all unfolds. It's like a black hole or a, a web or a bottomless pit of just information.

And, you know, and as I open up my father's letters that I read to you guys, I [00:40:30] just, just discover more and. Stuff that I did not know existed. So it's really cool. And I'm glad you guys are here in a part of this journey. It's, it's really awesome to have you guys here. It's really awesome to do this program.

Uh, you guys follow me all the socials at call your Landry talk at call your Landry. You guys are discovering more of my story with me. Uh, I just wanna say thank you for all of that. And, uh, yeah, this was a great episode. I'm Collier Landry and this is Moving Past Murder Thanks [00:41:00] y'all!

This podcast is made possible by support from listeners. Just like you, please. Subscribe via apple podcast, Spotify audible. Find us on YouTube,

The film a murder in Mansfield is available on investigation discovery, discovery, plus, and Amazon prime

Judge Henson: video.[00:41:30]

Collier Landry: This podcast is a production of don't touch my radio in association with RSA entertainment, please visit to show your support today.

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