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  • Collier Landry

Letters from Prison: Dad's First Year

In a look into the mind of a sociopathic killer, Collier goes through three never-before-opened letters that his father sent him from prison back in 1991. His father was approaching his first full year locked up during the writing of these letters. Through these pages, we see hints that Collier's father still holds some major resentment towards him for testifying against him in court.

  • In this week's listener question, we hear from a teacher who had to help a young student who (like Collier) had a father who killed her mother. Hear what Collier recommends for those who have to struggle through this terrible trauma, and how his own teachers were so important to his recovery.

  • Collier's dad tries to relate to his son by sharing what he's been watching on TV. Hear what he thinks of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

  • From having cartoons drawn on his letters to getting customized fitness programs, hear how Collier's father is getting the most out of his fellow prison inmates.

  • What kind of mental gymnastics do murderers have to jump through in order to try to convince others that they're innocent? Collier analyzes his dad's methods, laid out in these letters.

  • "I'm still in the struggle to overturn this illegal conviction." These are the words Collier's father wrote to him as he began to set the stage for appealing his guilty verdict in the murder of his wife.

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*This podcast contains colorful language that some of our listeners might consider NSFW...even when working from home.

Full Transcript Below:

Collier Landry 0:00

I can see the sun shining now outside, the air is still a bit brisk, but maybe I can get to the gym today, after all, to bounce around. I'll sign off for now. Take care of yourself. Remember, you do not walk alone. We are always with you and love you dearly. Don't ever forget that. So who is real? Who is always with me? And I am never I never walk alone. Is he alluding to my mother, who he murdered?

Intro Stinger 0:37

Testimony continued today in the most notorious criminal trial in Richland County history. Dr. John Boyle is accused of killing his wife, Noreen, and burying her body in the basement of his new home in Erie, Pennsylvania.

The 12 year old son finally took the stand. I heard a scream, I heard a thud. It was about this loud. We the jury find the defendant guilty.

When I was twelve years old, my testimony sent my father to prison for murdering my mother. This podcast serves as a type of therapy and reconciliation for myself, and it is my hope that it helps anyone who has experienced deception, betrayal, and dark trauma. I’m Collier Landry, and this is Moving Past Murder.

Hey movers what's going on? Welcome back to another episode of moving past murder. I am your host Collier, Landry and what's going on? What's going on? What's going on? Go with no. Oh, wow. Another week is in the history books. And yeah, I guess. I don't know. Is Elon Musk still buying Twitter? Is Kyrie Irving going to come to the Los Angeles Lakers? What is gonna happen to Kevin Durant. Now for those of you that don't know, I'm a basketball fan. And also a Twitter user. So I guess that makes both of those topics very interesting to me. But in all seriousness, no other week in the history books, and we are back with another episode for you guys. So I want to say a quick shout-out to all my listeners, you guys listening right now, those of you that are finding media TikTok, or Instagram or the Twittersphere, or those of you that reach out to me via my YouTube channel, which is forward slash Collier, Landry, which is where you're probably watching this if you're watching this podcast. And for those of you who tune in every week, and listen to me; thank you so much for your support. I really appreciate it. All my Patreon people, I appreciate you as well. So this week, I had a few different ideas for some things I wanted to discuss. And this week, I have, of course, letters from my father and I pulled out some really interesting ones. And again, these are all very random, I pulled them out of a bin.

I have not looked at them yet. I just look at the dates. And I hope that the dates Koro correspond with or coincide with what is actually in the envelope. But I don't really know, because I got a little messed up when I made the film of murder Mansfield because we were going through everything, and kind of like that. So we'll see what's going on with these letters. But in the meantime, I want to get to a listener question. And this listener question that came in this week was one that really hit me and also one that I wanted to talk about for a while, but I actually want to devote an episode or two about this particular topic. And I'm just gonna go ahead with it. So this week's listener shout out goes to Michelle McNeil and Michelle Rhee reached out to be on Instagram. And I want to just this is a long message but it has a really great point to it. Hi Collier. My name is Michelle McNeil and I have been watching your YouTube videos, listening to your podcast and watched a murder in Mansfield. I just want to say how inspiring you are for surviving all that you have, and using your experiences to help others who need it. Sorry, I have a question and it's long and Instagram won't let me paste it all at once. Years ago, I had a student in my fourth grade class whose father murdered her mother at work. Then he called relatives and threatened to come to the schools to pick up their children. Several of our schools went into lockdown as they had older children as well. This happened when she was in the third grade and I also had her in my class the following year. I spoke extensively with the school psychologist and her aunt and uncle about how best best to help her and follow their lead. The girls seem to be doing well by the time I had her in class, but she did have some difficult times where she was start to silently crying class. I took her aside and told her anytime she felt like she needed a break. She could signal me and she could go to the bathroom or go to the office or speak to someone. If she wanted to talk to me I would take her in the hall and I would just say whatever was needed. My heart would just break because I wasn't trained in how to deal with something like this and wasn't sure if I was doing or saying the right things. She seemed to respond well and would sometimes talk about her Mom, the good times they had and how loving she was, I would offer her a safe space and as many hugs as she wanted. I think it was all I could do. Long story short. My question is, is there something else that teachers can do to help kids through something like this? Did any of your teachers do anything special for you? There are other forms of trauma that I see almost every year. And I tend to be just to be there and offer safe space for them to vent if they want. And I don't push or ask for invasive questions. I've heard you talk about just wanting to feel some normality during your life. And I try to offer that for the for the time I have them in my class. Many times, I had never seen my students once they move on to middle middle school. And I think this, this family left our district. So I don't know how the kids are doing. I say a lot of prayers for all my kiddos and I hope they are surrounded by good and loving people. Oh my god, this is such a long, sorry for this is such a long message teachers are not always known for their brevity. Take care. And you are no you are doing amazing things for anyone who needs to know that they are not alone. Sincerely, Michelle. Okay. So as I stumbled through that apologies, this is a really interesting question in a lot of ways. First of all, it's very tragic. What happened to this girl. My heartbreaks hearing this, and also knowing that the teachers you know, I'll say this. In my opinion, being a teacher in this world is one of the one of the most important occupations a individual can have, because you are working with impressionable young minds that are shaping the future of our planet really. And it is not an easy job, and as of late is become a rather sometimes dangerous job. However, I will say that unequivocally without question, my teachers who were there for me, when I was going through all of the things that I was going through, whether it be right when my mother was murdered, and I was coming into class, and my teacher at the time was Sandy Weaver at Discovery school, and then it was Carol Paolo, at Discovery school as well.

Those teachers really were very impactful for me and they always lent an ear to me when I needed to talk and a lot of people asked me, whether it'd be in DMS, whether they asked me personally, or they reach out to me, you know, and they asked on Instagram lives or on Tik Tok. A lot of people want to know what I did for like therapy and how I got through this. I will, without question, the teachers that were there in my life for me, were monumental, in my personal processing of my grief, in the processing of what I was trying to accomplish, with with the loss of my mother as far as focusing on school as far as focusing on that, again, that just sense of normalcy. And as I got into high school and was, you know, obviously going through adolescence and puberty, there were other teachers, Sue Schneider comes to mind. Cindy Carr, well, she was Cindy polis at the time, Carolyn beer. Those were all my English teachers, actually, in my high school. And I developed a really great rapport with those women. I mean, all of my teachers apparently, as I mentioned, were women and there were a few great teachers as well Mark Rosebery comes to mind that I went to you know, these were from Ontario high school where I ended up graduating from but they were monumental. And I think back a lot, actually to my times relating to them and how they were. They treated me like an adult. If it didn't talk down to me and be less I was in trouble but like they didn't talk down to me. They made me feel heard. They made me feel respected. They made me feel understood. And I think that is an amazing gift. And quite honestly, it is something that I still carry with me to this day. And I still think about those times that I had, whether it be in study hall talking their ear off as they're trying to like my He's down there lunch in privacy, I'm sure like me knocking on the door was like, Oh God, here he is. And as anyone who listens to this program or knows me, brevity is also not one of my strong suits. So I can imagine just how much or intense I could have been, and the care and compassion that those teachers who had just mentioned, showed me during these very monumental and pivotal moments in my life, and my personal development. They were. I mean, they were amazing. And one of the things I think that I and when I talk about my story, when I was able to go to discovery school, when I was a child, when I just lost my mother, when it were when she was, you know, missing, and I was able to speak to Lieutenant mess more and give him clues, because I was in a state where I was, you know, I was in school, and I was safe. And I didn't have to worry about my father, or my grandmother, or anybody interfering with me talking to the police to try to give them clues to help find my mother. And when I uncovered the photographs of the house, and the girlfriend and things of that nature, I felt safe in my school to talk to them. One of the things that I feel about with the pandemic, when kids weren't able to go to school when they weren't able to leave households where they were abused, or their, their, one of their parents was suffering abuse, or the whole family was suffering, abuse and neglect or even hunger, you know, and, or alcoholism or dealing with problems at home and they didn't have any respite, to go to a place like their own sanctuary, which is what I had and I if I didn't have that, I don't know if I would have turned out the same way to be honest with you. So to those teachers, Sandy Weaver, Carol Paulo, Sue Schneider, Sydney car slash polis at that time, and Carolyn beard, beer, Carolyn beer, bark Roseberry. All of you guys were very monumental in baking and creating and helping shape the person that sits before this microphone, and this camera right here right now. So teachers without question in my mind, are priceless.

I digress. Let's get into today's episode. So I have three letters in front of me. Couple small envelopes. 25 cents. So this is a long time ago. It says April, April 1991. And we have another one. This one actually has no. Yeah, actually the date is worn off on this one. See here. But yeah, this is when my father was incarcerated at Warsi in Lebanon, Ohio. This one is oh, sorry, February 25. Looks like 1991 So my father wasn't even in prison for more than even a year. And then August 14 1991. Again at Warsi Warren Correctional Institution. And yeah, August 14 1991. For those of you seeing the envelopes in on YouTube in the video, and yeah. All right. So the first one has a little cute little mouse holding some cherries. I don't know do my mice like cherries? I don't know. My father would get these these would have these envelopes. Designed, you know, you trade things in prison and whatnot and he would have people write on them or draw and doodle on them. Another one is a is a boy cuddling up? Rabbits isn't a rabbit is a bear? Is it a koala? I don't know. Anyways, prison is full of cottage industries, as we all know. Alright, we're gonna open this one with the mouse carrying cherries. Who knows? All right, this one looks like it's tight. It's like a little water damage. Some of these? Um, all right, Saturday morning, February 23 1991. So again, my father. This is five days before my time would it be 13th birthday? Yeah. 13th birthday. So I was still 12 And yeah, my father was not even in prison for I don't know. Eight months, nine months. I'm like that this time. Your Collier How are you birthday boy. I hope your cold is better by now. Mine has stabilized so far but the sore throat is a real pain. Believe me everything is in whispers for me. Although this morning I think I'm on the road to some improvement. I love you silly bear. The weather is really crazy here the past few days. No wonder everyone is sick. The temperature yesterday was near 50 degrees, just high enough to incubate the bugs. Don't ask what's going on with the typewriter. It must be Ill also, I don't know why it skipped like this. But anyhow, this throat is a real bugger to cure, most likely viral in origin as opposed to a bacterial strep infection. Did you have to take any antibiotics for your cold? Hope it didn't bother your asthma. Have you been tapered off the medications yet? So really fast. So my father, obviously being a doctor would care for me as a doctor would when I was asthmatic because I grew up very heavily asthmatic. And I would often have to take steroids and take steroid injections when I was a kid, which were really bad, like prednisone like cortisone was a regular staple for me because my lungs, we get so swollen. I am not that heavily asthmatic anymore. But I had some real problems when I was a kid, especially from the ages of like, I want to say like nine to 1413, maybe 1314 I think I started growing out of it. When I got into high school a little bit more. I mean, I still had exercise induced asthma but was much less worse. I'm sure I had many asthma attacks. Still, I think I think it also it probably lasted up until college really. So I was heavily asthmatic is the point. So my father was checking on that which is interesting, and he's being very nice. And this one. I saw something really gross this morning on the television, there was a commercial about ninja turtle cakes made by hostess Have you seen these? Have you seen them yet? Anyways, the cake was green, and they and they said fresh baked from the sewer. How gross I couldn't believe that they would even advertise something like that for people to eat Yakko I saw some of the Return of the Jedi on TV last night. Did you watch it? I can remember sitting with you, as you watch that show for about 100 times a conservative estimate. I can remember when you were younger and afraid of Darth Vader, we were at the mall and he was there. He was there to get a picture with him. And you were really afraid of him. You wouldn't let go of mommy and my hand. As you start as you were staring at him as though he was going to take you away from us no chance. Eventually you had your picture taken with him and all was well after that. So this is a really interesting thing. All right. So for those of you that

so of course I was in Star Wars as most people my age growing up where I mean, I don't think my father watched The Return of the Jedi with me 100 times. I don't think that ever happened. I do remember going with my parents to see return to the Jedi in the movie theater in Mansfield, Ohio at King's gate cinemas. I'm pretty sure but I'm interesting because Darth Vader was Luke's father and betrayed his son. Very interesting, and killed a bunch of people to my even killed his mother, if I'm not mistaken. I guess I'll have to watch the prequels to figure that out again, I don't know. This is a weird one. How is school going? What is your best subject? How are the layups going still bouncing the wall. I haven't hit the gym too much in the past two weeks because of not feeling so hot. But that will change come Monday, I'll be back in action again. I just lost my appetite for any foods. That's what we get here. Quote any foods, I plan to get into some serious exercise programs. One of the other prisoners is a type of trainer and he wants to start me on a rigorous weightlifting program to tone up what's already hit they hear rather than become quote Hulk Hogan. So I'm getting going to give it a try and see what happens. All this design do is to provide maximum efficiency and cut off some of the fat. I can see the sun shining now outside the air is still a bit brisk. But maybe I can get to the gym today after all to bounce around. I'll sign off for now. Take care of yourself. Remember you do not walk alone. We are always with you and love you dearly. Don't ever forget that. So who is real? Who is always with me? And I am never I never walk alone. Is he alluding to my mother? Who he murdered? Is he alluding to himself that he's there like you know he was just mentioning I mean this is not as overt as some of his other loud letters but this is you know okay so here's a remember a good time. And we were at the mall I protected you from Darth Vader mommy protected you. And then oh let's talk about this. Oh and by the way your you will never walk alone. We are here. With you always by your side. Like, well, this is 9091. So he was Jed just been incarcerated for, like I said about eight or nine months at this time is actually in prison and we're in correctional institution. Wow. And I can still hear my head when I say that I would hear the actual recordings that come over the prison phone when you're when you're talking to someone who's an inmate. So anyways, that's a very interesting little letter, but again, a little bit with the manipulation like, hey, remember some really good times because you didn't have very many with me, and then I'm gonna let you know that you're you're not going to walk alone. So this second letter is, I don't have a date for it, but it's also a small envelope. Like I said, it has the little boy cuddling a bunny or a Koala. Koala bunny mix? I don't know. But yeah, and he still addresses it to me call your el boil. Even though my name wasn't that at the time, because I was adopted, but that's okay. Tomato tomahto. Sunday afternoon March 4 deer bumper. So my father some of you know, that was my nickname. Boy did it turn cold today. Yesterday was kind of nice. Then bam in with a chill. I've got another sweater on to keep me warm today. Even the fingers are cold on the old console. What's it like up yonder? What's it like up yonder? I'm certain is just as cold and Mansfield. Well, the old round ball continues onward. I was sad to see tempo lose today, because it was a pretty close game. They lost by three points. St. John's is playing Duke and it doesn't look good at this writing. Yeah, ouch. But the Big East didn't make it into the regional finals. Anyhow, I see the heroes in the half shell learning to Ninja Turtles are added again in the green teens have returned to complete their complete with their ooze. I am or maybe I'm not surprised by all the things they are advertising about the ninjas. But I guess that's Madison Avenue for you. I'm going to head back to the pod for supper soon. Just a little note letting you know you're in my thoughts and prayers and love you bundle take care call your hugs and kitties. Hugs and kitties. Daddy. Yeah. I was into Ninja Turtles when I was a kid. So my father is maybe

maybe he is, you know, trying to get into my good graces. Again. He's not even been incarcerated for a year at this point. And you know, often turns as you've heard in other letters. So this is August 14. So there's a third letter here I have again from Warren Correctional Institution. And this one is from August 14 1991. So he's been in for now over a year in Warren Correctional Institution. Wednesday morning, August 14, dear Collier, I received Oh, no noticing. This paper is super wrinkly. If you guys can see it on the YouTubes. You see how wrinkly it is? Like I must have balled this up and thrown it out. I don't know, we'll see. Your call your I received your letter. Last night your I received your last letter and was glad to hear from you. I imagine your stolen vacation trip to the shore. I hope all went well. And you saw many interesting sights and not too much sunburn. Things are the same here still in the struggle to overturn this illegal conviction. So it doesn't take much as you know, we go through two letters with a lot of like small talk. And hey, remember the good times and Oh, remember, I'm protecting you from Darth Vader, and then bam, the illegal conviction. But I will continue to fight in the courts for my freedom and the correction of this injustice against me and my family. Well, that's interesting. I mean, so against me and my family. So am I part of that family? And what is the injustice that my father is alluding to? I feel like over the years, just as sort of an aside before I finished this letter, my father would come back to this narrative of the wrongful conviction, the injustice of all of this. And as we know many years later, and as we knew back then when he was convicted when I heard him murder my mother when I saw his behavioral patterns, when I saw the way that he was behaving towards me and being you know, evasive and prevaricated with the police, the way that his temper was so apoplectic the way that he was just, you know, in a rage and in a in a in a frenzy after my mother, quote, disappeared after he killed her It's so it's so bizarre to me that someone who knows that they murdered someone who was there because they were there. They had to do it, how they can just try to project this other narrative on, you know, your son whose mother You murdered, and then on, you know, obviously my father is gearing up to have an appeal, which he did. And he went through the appellate process, I believe a couple of times actually grabbing for straws on a number of issues from me being coached to Dave mess for taking me to a bar and getting me drunk when I was 11 years old, or something like some ludicrous. I have no idea. These are all things and as we delve into more letters on this program, we're gonna hear more of the stories. But yeah, this is fascinating. And him just really trying to project this narrative that he was illegally convicted. I don't know how he thinks that or what his rationale is. But, again, you did it man. Like, I don't really understand what else there is to talk about. So anyways, back to the letter. And again, and also the justice against him and my family. He doesn't say our family, like referring to me as being a part of that family. Because I think underneath it all he is he has this, you know, resentment towards me for testifying for being the one who led the police to, you know, understand that my mother wasn't just a missing person, but was rather a dead person, a person that was killed by my father, and then they found her. I mean, the delusions of some of this is crazy as I don't like to use the word crazy, but it is mind boggling for sure. You sound anxious about your new school. Hope you like it sounds like discovery school was beginning to be a problem for you, was it? I don't know much about the Ontario middle school, but I imagine it must be okay. Well, actually, yeah. So I had left my school, which was discovery school. At that time recently, actually, they asked me if I would come back as an alumni and speaking at an event. We'll see if that happens.

But yes, things got very uncomfortable at the school because the principal, Lynne Regan, Bach had adapted, adopted my sister, Elizabeth, and then they named her Caitlin. And this was probably six months after I last saw my sister because they wouldn't let me see her anymore. And there became a little bit of an issue, to say the least, regarding that with my adoptive parents who were rightfully so angry about that and myself who was just completely brokenhearted that I couldn't have any contact with my sister, for whatever reason. And like I said, I haven't seen her since, like, January or February 1991. So it's been a long time. And this was August 14 1991. So that's why we left. Okay. Back to the letter. Sherry and I have discussed you meeting with JJ I think you had one of that and spoke to Mr. Sigler. About Sigler means Ziggler about it, who was who has spoken with Sheree. So I believe JJ is who he's referring to is my sister Chrissy who was born 12 days before my father was arrested. And yeah, my adopted parents were very, very proactive in trying to get me to see both my sisters after adopting me and aft and trying to help us all forged some sort of relationship with my sister Elizabeth, it was a no go. With Sherry, she was amenable to it off and on and I did get to see my sister when she was very little. And then as she got older, and we had a relationship up until when I made a murderer Mansfield. We even went to see my father together in prison. Before I made a murderer Mansfield was the first time we were all sitting in the room together for the very first time and probably for the last time, sadly but that was a very interesting experience which I will talk about on another episode of the podcast for sure. We are waiting for approval from the Richland County children's services before any visits so it's up to the RCC s to give us the go ahead and writing and the okay from the juvenile court. Hopefully you will be seeing your sister soon. In the meantime, here's a nice picture of her well I'm off to work you take care right soon miss you and hope to get to see you soon. Get your pencils ready for school love daddy. I'm very interesting, and I don't know why my father called refers to my sister is JJ. Is that like, my father being John? Is that like John Jr. But not? I don't know. There's some other things in the envelope here looks like support our troops. These are photocopies of support our troops. Operation Desert Storm. I realize probably a lot of the audience is not alive for Operation Desert Storm. But that was the thing. The first Gulf War. Wow, lots of stuff operation does. Yeah, lots of photocopies here for my father supporting the troops, which is always a good thing. But wow. I think every time I read these letters, no matter what, and obviously, like I've said in the program, many times, you know, I pull these out randomly, right? I'm never like, I'm never really surprised as to what I find. Because I always sort of know what the narrative is. I think in that first letter that I read when he's discussing the, the, remember the good times, like, oh, watching Star Wars with you, sorry, yeah, Star Wars Return of the Jedi 100 times, at least as a conservative estimate, taking you to the mall, your photograph with Darth Vader, but then you were scared of Darth Vader, and we protected you, and I protected you. And then you know, this sort of, I feel like

this is something that I felt about my father my entire life, and especially in my adult life, nothing is ever genuinely with this man. It's always setting something up. Because, you know, look, you're in prison. He's in for at least 21 and a half years at this point, he's going to be. And if you're setting up a long game of trying to get out of prison, you're going to start dropping these little subtle hints of manipulation. I feel that because these letters are so new, when he was newly incarcerated. We're seeing this subtle hint. So let me remind you of the good times, then let me remind you of how you're a part of us. And and we are always with you. Then the second letter when he's discussing, you know, he's going to get the illegal conviction overturned. You know, that is a very bold statement, like what was illegal about your conviction that, like, you murdered my mother, you went to prison. That's how it works. There's nothing illegal about that. And I feel like, you know, a lot of times, you know, when we look at the American justice system, and I know that a lot of people get very frustrated with it, because there are a lot of technicalities. And I think that my father was at this time, and I remember as it went through later, years later, and as I've read some of these letters before on the podcast, where he was attempting to get an appeal, and he did have an attorney, I believe the gentleman's name was Tom Adgate. And he was really grabbing at straws, with any sort of technicality that he could use to get out of prison. And my father composed this narrative from day one. And again, these little subtle drops of manipulation tactics in these letters to sort of begin to stoke the flames of, you know, you've betrayed me, you betrayed the family, you are missing out on the good times. And, you know, you, you fucked up. I think these are all seeds. I mean, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I don't think I am. And I know my father very, very well. And I feel like if you took these if you if you took more of a macro perspective over the duration of these letters, over years, and of course of years, and the way that his manipulation, would would continue, and the way that he would use these tactics, like little hidden drops, just little subtle reminders. It's just, it's a mindfuck. Because what it is, it really is a mindfuck it is definitely characteristic of a narcissist and a sociopath. I mean, this is malignant narcissism, because this is a grand scheme to try to manipulate the chief witness that put him in prison in the first place. Well, my father put himself in prison by committing the act of murdering my mother, but I was when he testified. So I feel like it's weird when I read these I think about him. How nothing over my entire life, my entire relationship with him. I don't know about before he committed the crime and before he went to jail or prison, because I didn't have that much interaction with my Father because my mother protected me from my father. But I can't even begin to imagine the interactions that my mother would have with him, and how she was manipulated and gaslighted. And, or gaslit. And the amount of emotional and psychological manipulation just wears on a person. And the man has never changed. And it's just it's like, it feels like just one big long con. That's what it feels like, to me one big long con one big long hustle. Every time I begin to think about how my father related to me when he was in prison, when I would go to see him from when I was a, you know, a youth when I was 1112 13 years old, to when I was, you know, in adults, and when you see me in a murder Mansfield, nothing has changed. It's always the same game. It's a long game that he's been playing

with the sole attempt of getting out of prison, and not being accountable for the crime that he committed. But that's my opinion. And I would love to hear what your opinions are and what you guys think about this material. I know these letters were super exciting, with, you know, these crazy stories or anything, but these are really interesting because there's this just this very subtle manipulation and in the, the devil is always in the details. Right? And it Yeah, it's these little flags and he's planting these little seeds that he's planting in me, seeds of doubt, seeds of guilt, seeds of manipulation, and I mean, look, I know I'm not the only person he wrote letters to and I know that he did that to other people for sure. 100% I've seen it but it's fascinating but I you know, again, if this material is connecting with you guys, please reach out find me on the social medias the interwebs everywhere at Collier Landry that's Instagram. That's Facebook. That's that's to Twitter. That is tick tock for those of you that follow me on tick tock just reach out because I love hearing from you guys. I love hearing how this material is connecting with you guys. And and on a note from our earlier from my earlier conversation from the letter from Michelle McNeil. I want to say thank you to all of the teachers that were there for me growing up. You guys are all amazing. And I know I forgotten some of you but you were all incredible and you helped mold me into the individual that I am today. So on that note, I'm Collier Landry, and this is Moving Past Murder. Thanks, y'all

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