Decisions from a Traumatic Past to Live for the Future
In this unique episode, we get to see what it's like when the tables are turned with Collier as the guest of a show. Wellness and business coach Jessica McKinley (host of Sincerely, Future You) interviews Collier about his pain, his losses, his recovery, and the lessons he learned along the way. It's a more vulnerable side of Collier we don't normally see on MPM. Listen as Collier tells Sincerely, Future You host Jessica McKinley the heartbreak he had to suffer as a young boy who lost his mother, his father, his sister, his dog, his extended family, everything almost instantly.
Collier made incredible sacrifices as a child so he could respect himself and the person he knew he would become in the future. Jessica explores just how difficult that is for anyone to do.
We all need a peptalk in life the office through our darkest moments here what Collier had to tell himself at 12-years-old defined the world to live and push forward.
Child actors often have a difficult time adjusting to life as they grow older. It's not so different for children who experience trauma.
After surviving everything he's been through, what message does Collier have for others struggling to move past their own individual trauma?
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Full Transcript Below
This podcast is a production of Bright Sighted Podcasting
Jessica McKinley 0:02
Do you have one message to anyone who is healing from their own trauma and or looking to do what you say so eloquently in your podcast and just move past it and help other people moves past their particular trauma.
Collier Landry 0:22
You're not your circumstances. And you can be both the author and the audience of your own. When you do, as hard as it is, since it's worth it, it really is in the end. I wouldn't change anything about my life is probably a very dramatic and and maybe difficult thing to understand or to comprehend for a lot of people but it's the truth.
Intro Stinger 0:56
Testimony continued today in the most notorious criminal trial in Richland County history. Dr. John Boyle is accused of killing his wife, Noreen, and burying her body in the basement of his new home in Erie, Pennsylvania. The 12-year-old son finally took the stand. I heard a scream, I heard a thud. It was about this loud. We the jury find the defendant guilty. When I was twelve years old, my testimony sent my father to prison for murdering my mother. This podcast serves as a type of therapy and reconciliation for myself, and it is my hope that it helps anyone who has experienced deception, betrayal, and dark trauma. I’m Collier Landry, and this is Moving Past Murder.
Hey, movers what's going on? Welcome back to another episode of moving past murder. I'm your host Collier, Landry and what's going on? We know what's going home. We know. Oh, Happy Friday. So glad to have you guys back. I have been working all week very diligently on a documentary project that has been a part of my life. For the last three years I've been wrapping it up with a dear friend of mine named Sharon, rocky Rojo who's actually going to be on this program very soon. The film was called 1946 is an important film that is coming out and we are putting it all together. And it's, it's amazing to see it come to fruition. It's been a long time coming. So I will have her on the program very soon. But this week, I want to do something a little different. i i 20 toyed around with doing an episode of the similar content. But I thought that this particular interview that I had done on a podcast called sincerely future you hosted by a woman named Jess McKinley. She's a friend of mine. She's very cool. She actually recently got married and has a baby and another one and she is a life coach. She is a business coach for female executives. And she has this wonderful podcast. And our episode was very, was was really poignant. I said some really great things in it. And I thought like I wanted to talk about the same subject with you guys on an episode which I might cover later on down the road. But I thought this was such a great interview. I wanted to share it with you guys. So I'm going to do that on this week's episode. But first, I want to get to a listener question. As I always do you guys send in you know, I try to read all your comments on YouTube, your DMS you send me for those of you that find me on Tik Tok, thank you very much. I read all of your comments whenever I can. And you know, and I really think it's valuable. And I love hearing your input on all the episodes that I'm doing. So thank you so much. Please keep that up. Please reach out. MPM podcast.com You can reach out to me on you know, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube and Tiktok at call your Landry is all my social media handles, please don't please don't hesitate to reach out my website, call your landry.com all that stuff, all the things for you guys. I just love hearing from you. And it helps make me make better content for you guys, my audience and I love that. So this comes from J S on YouTube. And she said now this is where regards to an episode that I did about my father sending me a letter where he discusses this is this very fantastical scenario where my mother was involved in a Chinese gold smuggling ring and a baby selling ring and sort of some pedophile activity of selling children. Just complete Crazy Talk is what I think the polite way of describing it is the normal way that I would describe it as just bullshit. So I was discussing this you're reading this letter and discussing my thoughts on it and this And this person writes and writes to me and she says, I think you put too much pressure on yourself to let things go, your family abandoned you. And on top of that, what your dad is going is going to do to cause some feelings, to say the least. There is no excuse for what your blood relatives did and didn't do. None. Try looking at it from your mother's perspective. My ex husband tried to kill me. And I promise you she was worried about how this would affect you and your sister, would you hear that was what was happening? See it? Would he hurt you too, and who was going to wash over you when she couldn't? These people failed her in the worst possible way. And they were pretty much as bad in her eyes as your father was, how do I know that I lived and my family bailed on me and my kids, I have a hell of a lot more anger towards them than I do my ex husband. I think you can experience positive feelings for people like your adoptive family. But you don't have to make any excuses for all the people who failed you and your mother, you deserved better and so did your mom. Wow, that is a lot. And as I talked about, on the on the podcast, a lot about my family, both sides of my family, my father's side and my mother's side, not being there for me when it was the worst possible time of my life. And I don't harbor any anger towards these people. I have tried to reconcile with them over the years, I'm someone to talk to me. But my my mother's sister who was very close to me, my life I have not spoken to and 20 some years.
It's unfortunate. It is not for a lack of me trying to bring these people in the fold into my life. But I feel like you know, when my mother be angry with him, sure, of course, I think you had and my angry with him. Yeah, but you gotta let that shit go. That's my that is my opinion on all of that. And that is, you know, ties into this week's episode of sincerely future, you have what I would love to say to my 11 year old self. And when I was going through the trauma of losing my family, you know, not only losing my family, losing my mother losing my father, losing where I grew up, in my whole sense of normalcy, the whole world that I had become to know at that point in my life, losing everything, and then needing those people to be there through me, be there for me through all of that. And I feel like a lot of people can carry a lot of this shit in their lives. And it can really take hold of you as you get older. And as you become I mean, I think if you become a parent, I am not a parent, unless a chihuahua counts. But I think is some people approach fatherhood or motherhood, they start to think about the trauma that has come to them in their life when they were younger, and how their families behaved with them. And you know, a lot of people get angry and bitter. And I just can't get down with that. And, you know, I like I said, I'm not a parent, but I feel a lot of these things take hold. And what this episode of sincerely future you that I'm going to share with you guys right now is one of the things that I wanted to say to that 11 year old kid, well, 12 year old when I was going to testify against my father, and what that looked like. And what I would say now, which is I mean, I'm still here, right? And I'm still I still feel like I'm leading a very positive life, and doing very positive things and trying to influence the world around me in that small little, you know, in that little microcosm of a way that I can. So on that note, please enjoy this episode, which I believe was recorded in March of this year of the podcast sincerely future you with Jess McKinley.
Jessica McKinley 9:06
Welcome to sincerely future you. We have an interesting show for you today. It's not my usual content. But when I learned more about my guest story today, I thought it actually would be very beneficial for you guys, especially if you're someone who is ever wanted to make a part of your personal life, your business, but you felt very confused about where do you draw the line to not get consumed with your personal life and not make sure that it gets too messy. So I have someone that I've observed from afar do this really well. And before I go on, I do want to share a brief disclaimer. This week's episode will include a conversation about the loss of a loved one by murder. So if this makes you uncomfortable, no need to listen to this episode. Also, I will have some resources linked in the show notes, but I personally am very excited to bring you someone who I've recently come to know Collier, Landry. And here's a little bit about him. While most hosts of true crime, True Crime podcast simply discuss murders that fascinate them. Call your Landry host of moving past murder has actually lived through one on December 31 1989. When Collier was 11 years old, his father, Dr. John Jack Boyle, killed his mother, Noreen Boyle and buried her in a crypt beneath the basement of their new house. Her body wouldn't be found until January 1990. The case became Mansfield, Ohio's crime of the century and spawned a forensic file files episode in 2000, a documentary in 2018. And now Landry's own podcast moving past murder, which I highly recommend you go and check out yourselves. This has served as therapy and reconciliation both for Landry and listeners who are processing betrayal and trauma in their own lives. So welcome, Collier.
Collier Landry 11:11
Thank you for having me.
Jessica McKinley 11:13
Thanks so much. I know it's kind of unusual, maybe for both of us for these two podcasts to come into light. But I did mention, and I only gave a very brief, I don't know how to, to briefly understate kind of the the topic that you talk about on your podcast. So I want you to kind of take us back a little bit, and then I'd love to ask you some questions about the business end of it.
Collier Landry 11:42
Sure. So as you said, when I was 11 years old, my father, I heard my father murdered my mother, the case was originally treated as like a missing persons case. And no one believed me. I knew my mother was dead. The next morning, when I woke up, my father said, you know, Mommy, I said, Where's my mother, and he said, Mommy took a little vacation, call her and I'm like, and then went into this whole thing. We're not going to call the police or the FBI, which was super weird. My father is a narcissist and a sociopath and a psychopath clearly, so what happened is, is I contacted my mother's friends, and I said, you know, she's gone, like, as somebody called the police please came, and they treated as a missing persons case, then a detective. So I thought it was interesting. He showed up to this house to our house, and my mother's body was buried in a house in another state that my father may burn bought for his mistress. So it wasn't in our home, it was in a completely other state. And what happened is, as I said to the detective, I pulled him aside, and I said, my mother is dead. Don't believe my father don't like that. She's not interested in fighting, they ran out, she would never leave me. He took a chance on me like listening to this 12 year old kid. Now my father was a doctor in a very small town community in Ohio, where doctors Are you offended a lot of times and given a lot of leeway. And his police captain was like, You're crazy. This is a doctor, we're not going to take this one against you. But there's something about this kid, over the course of 25 days between my mother going missing on December 31. And January 24. When they found her body, he and I worked in tandem, to find out what happened to my mother. What had happened is, is that I was thrown into the spotlight, and both sides of my family abandoned me my father's side of the family wanted nothing to do with me, because I was I was the person who got the blue got the police that led them to arresting my father, I was supposed to testify to the grand jury for his indictment. And then ultimately, I testified at trial for two and a half days, and he is still incarcerated to this day, and thrown to the wolves in the foster care system. And he sort of just tried to sort all this out and muster the strength to like, testify and do what was right. And that experience. So that was about a six month time period of just being sort of isolated and in foster care and having your whole world turned upside down. I mean, I was yanked out of my house, you know, lost my dog, my friends, my like, everything was just a mess, right? As one could expect. One of the things that I always thought about it, especially after the trial, is you know, we now, I say this, because this was sort of it. Now that narrative is sort of changing, we are becoming a lot more aware of the consequences of violence in the United States and around the world, right? And the impacts that these things have on communities, ancillary victims this, this and that, right. But my opinion growing up was very much so that we, the victim is dead. The bad guy goes to jail. The state gets his restitution, the gavel hits and we say next, and we never looked at the consequences of these things and the actions that brought them and the impact and the devastation that these have. And so it sort of became my whole like, life's mission, if you will. I went to music school, I dropped out. I moved to California and I decided to become a filmmaker and was my goal to, to tell my story and to honor my mother and to start bringing these things to, you know, to light.
Jessica McKinley 15:08
So that was when you were around 2121 When you started when you created the documentary, when you started to dive into really taking this from your personal life to trying to make some sort of purpose and path for yourself.
Collier Landry 15:27
Sure. And so if I may, I love that it was only three years ago or four years ago now. So if you say 21, I'm still 25, which I love. But no, I know it was it. You know, everything takes a lot of time in Hollywood. So I didn't, I didn't really start into production until, you know, I got investigation where, you know, I got to a director on board, Barbara Kopple. She's won two Academy Awards for for documentaries. And I brought on my friend John Morrissey, who produced a film called American History X, which is an amazing film about the consequences of violence towards Edward Norton. Beverly D'Angelo in his investigation, Discovery came on board. And then we made the film and which airs on the investigation, discovery, Hulu, Amazon, but but the thing is, is again, about these, like I was saying the consequences of violence and the impact that these things have, and like, what happens like what next right? Moving past murder, the podcast then became an extension of the film because like I said, I traveled around the world, the film came out that we had COVID, whatever I, you know, universities, things of that nature. And then I was like, Okay, now I want to reach the audience to show them, okay, this is what happened. This honors my mother. And now I've told the story. But now Now, the next chapter of this is the next chapter, this is to show people that you can go through extraordinary circumstances and survive or defy is seemingly insurmountable odds. And come out the other side. Okay, like, you're gonna make it, you know? So, that's, that is what this whole thing you don't have. Just think about him sincerely future you, right? So, you know, I'm kids sitting in foster care, I have no family, I'm 11 years old, or 12 years, all this time now. I'm thinking myself, you know, like, what is life look like? I've lost my mother and my father, my, you know, my family. Nobody was hey, if you didn't do it, right. I'm wrapped up in this whirlwind of a have a story how to expect you have this emotional, wrapped up this like whirlwind of a case in my hometown, like, what is my life gonna look like? And I just remember, I remember sitting in the bedroom, and just kind of like this really dark places, I you know, I would say, like, probably the nadir of my life, right. And, you know, I'm facing testifying as my father, which, for a kid that that has just lost everything and for the fact that, like, here's my father with his legal team and everything, and he's a doctor, right? So he has money, so he can just, you know, yeah, I mean, he almost got away with it. And if it wasn't for my persistence, with this detective who I literally enjoyed the living, what out of, you know, he, they wouldn't have found my mother. And it would have been like, my, you know, these cases like this are littered throughout our society of just these unanswered, like, okay, somebody goes missing. Okay. Well, I mean, look at Robert Durst, like, you know, this, he had just passed away, resent it did an episode about him. But, you know, they still don't know what happened to his wife. I mean, they can assume what happened, they don't have answers, these poor people, for 30 years, like, have wanted to know where she went, right? So I'm sitting there, and I'm thinking to myself, at like, 12 years old, like, what is my life gonna look like? Okay. If my father gets off, you know, my life is over. I'll be my life, as I knew it was already over. But this is a guy that I'm going to then go back to custody with, and he is going to either put me in a shallow grave and another home, or he's going to make the rest of my life, a living hell. And trust me, even in prison, he has tried to do that. But the thing was, is I had to just go, okay, where would I look back at this moment? 20 years from now, 30 years from now, what am I going to say? And I said, at that point, to myself, I'm going to say that I did everything I could, to be honest, and to tell the truth, and not back down to the fear or intimidation or just the I just was like, I'm going to do the right thing, and I don't really care what the consequences are.
Jessica McKinley 19:43
You know, I think you answered a question that I like to ask all of my interviewees which is really like if you could tell if you as your future self now who your present self could tell your past self or If your future self, if you could talk to them, what would they say? And really, it sounds like you made a decision that I encourage all of my clients to make all the time, which is, it might cost you greatly right now, whether that is emotional pain, or whether it's something logistical. In your case, it costs you everything, to stay in integrity, with what you knew you had to do in order to live with yourself in the future. And it sounds like you did kind of even as an 11 year old 12 year old have some sort of whether it was conscious or not conversation with your future self of like, is it now that I feel the pain? Or is it later and either way, it seems kind of inevitable? Am I willing to sacrifice more in order to have myself that I can honor? And my mom ultimately?
Collier Landry 21:06
Yeah, and the thing is, is that, you know, it's, it's, it's just that when I made the film, we were like, well, why did you make the film? I said, Well, I did it to heal myself. And I said, if I can change one person's life, I've done my job. Yeah, because there's a kid sitting there 12 years old, going through this same. Sorry, I would say the same shit. Yeah. And he is, is literally staring down the barrel of like life going, I don't think I'm gonna make it. And I wanted to tell that kid, it was me, you are, like, you're gonna survive this you're gonna get through I know, it sucks. And it's not easy. And it is a it is a grind. And sometimes you feel like it maybe the truth is, is that it only gets harder, it doesn't get easier. You know, you you the more you delve into these things, and but you tell you again, about these conversations you have like one of the things that I deal with dealing with it now because as you know, I've been in several publications, I was just in the New York Post, just in the independent yesterday heard I you know, it was amazing for the for the podcast, you know, because this is the next genesis of gender, Genesis of what I'm doing right, or the evolution. But, you know, my family still remains completely disconnected from it. And there was a brief time last year where some of them reconnected with me or one of them reconnected on my mother's side. But now they're just, it's just the same thing. And the message that I'm trying to get out to people is that you're, you're faced, you have a choice to make. And you can either do the work and get through this, or you can let it control and destroy your whole life. And I have only seen that with like my family. And it is so tragic. And I and I want to scream half the time at the top of my lungs. Guys, I know that this sucks. And this is so hard. But if anyone deserves to be pissed off and say if the world, it's me, and I don't like I lost everything. And on top of that, you guys disowned me, a child who had nothing like, like, I had nothing to do with my father. I have nothing to do with, with what's with anything that he's done. Nor would I I'm sorry that I happen to be male. And I look like my mother, not my father. And it's just it's was staggering to me. And as I you know, as I started to get into adulthood, as it was already astonishing to me growing up, as I got into adulthood, you know, you get the age where you're having to Well, I don't have children, but I've very children, but but I don't you know, but you are of that age, we start thinking oh, if I had to care for another being or you know, I'm adopted, and my adopted brother has three three boys and they're my nephews. I cannot imagine something happening to my brother and his wife and be saying to those nephews, yeah, that's cool. Just you'll figure it out.
Jessica McKinley 24:26
That would be no and I mean, it's obviously trauma is just doesn't even cover I think quite the the word for what you went through at at 11. And really continue to go through as you like you've said go through the different Genesis is Genesis, Genesis of of reopening the wound for yourself and then also sharing in a mission driven way and I don't know if you saw I recently left your podcast or review that wrap against two of my personal heroes, including Tara Westover and Nora McInerny. Are you familiar with either of them?
Collier Landry 25:09
Jessica McKinley 25:10
Collier Landry 25:11
I haven't read educated yet, but I definitely want to,
Jessica McKinley 25:14
yes, so educated just as a backstory for the listeners. She Tara Westover is the author of the world famous autobiography educated where she grew up with some crazy schizoid by polar undiagnosed parents that didn't believe in medicine or doctors or support the government. And they basically were raised in a cult environment. And she was not allowed to read or be educated, it was just very traumatic stuff that she went through. And that's just like scratching the surface of what
Collier Landry 25:48
it was Christian Science.
Jessica McKinley 25:51
There's all sorts of weird stuff that was going on there. And I don't even know that she had a label for it. But she managed to get herself out of that situation, which cost her her relationship with her entire family, everything that she knew, and she was able to get to, I believe, Oxford. And she wrote this book that is so self aware. And I just found that with you, for people who go through trauma, there's usually something about them that you can tell from an outsider talking to them, that they're still there in the trauma so much that they can't really see what has been happening in a clear and unbiased way, the way they describe it is purely from their from inside of it. And not from a lens of inside and outside. And I think Tara did it so well, and listening to you talk about your story and how what you're able to do with the documentary in the podcast is so incredible. And I have people who have come to me, Nora McInerny is another person who her has been, you know, died of a brain tumor. And she created the podcasts.
Collier Landry 27:07
Terrible. Thanks for asking. Yeah. Great. And it's a great, it's a great message. It's like, because it's real, it's authentic. And I think that that, you know, when people and I'm sorry to interrupt you, I guess. All right.
Jessica McKinley 27:20
We're both podcaster. So like, we have that desire to?
Collier Landry 27:24
Well, I just wanted to you know, there was no need to get emotional yet. Straight. So I was screening this. I was screening the documentary in Cleveland, you know, in Ohio, and it was for the Cleveland International Film Festival. I made this like cheeky joke. While I'm up there after the film, we're we're doing this panel, and I said, Oh, yeah, so this feels like a, like, I'm on a panel at Comic Con. Audience laughs or whatever. I'm taking more questions. This guy stands up, and he's gonna give a question he goes, because I have a question. By mistake. said, yeah, you just said this is Comic Con. He's like, a friend. You're a real life superhero. And your superpower is how authentic you are. And, and how you've taken what you've done, to be exemplary. And so this is not a rah rah beep thing. But it boils back to the message that you can either take these things by the horns and say, they're not going to control you. Or you can or you just or you just succumb to them. And for me, even at 1112 years old, I was like, you know, future self may be saying, like, look, this is not the way and also like, this is not what my mother would want. You know, and this is not life. This is not what life is about. And I think a lot of times like people will become bitter like, okay, so Nora, her, her, you know, her her husband dies of a brain tumor, it's easy to say, well, you know, if at all, like, life is just terror, you know, whatever, no, she does something out of it, you know, and it's it's successful podcast. And it's like
Jessica McKinley 29:09
you said, I don't think she had the same intention of like growing it to what it is today. And same thing with you. It's like your that starts out that seedling of if I can just help one person. Absolutely. And at the same time, somehow make sense of and heal myself, that is going through this at the time while helping other people. That really is the point and I think when you and Tara and Nora are able to be so incredibly self brave, mixed with self awareness. It it creates this magic elixir and this space for us all to really, to really heal along with you and say like it's okay there is I mean, even for me, I have not been through a ton drama, and I am so comforted by all of your willingness to continue to put one foot in front of the other after going through something that's unimaginable to most people it makes. It makes me I usually say all the time is to my clients. This this podcast used to be about how, how feelings fit into business, and about how important it is for you to understand your negative emotions and your positive emotions. And I said, for me, the more I experience a negative emotion, the more I show myself how unfuck with a bowl, I am, like, the more I just believe, there's nothing I can't handle, even if it's on a small scale. And watching you guys do it on such a large scale. It has an impact not just to people who have been through trauma, but people who may have not had their trauma yet. You don't know what kind of an impact that conversation will have on their future self. So I just wanted to acknowledge that as well. I was one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show, I think that you reach a broader audience than you think. And I think that, you know, it's a little bit unfair, I don't know the word. It's like, unfortunately, and fortunately trendy that the murder podcasts and, and the, like people are interested in fascinated in it. And I think that you know your story, though. It's important to people who aren't necessarily exposing themselves to that world.
Collier Landry 31:33
So, you know, I mean, in a lot of ways, I feel like, well, first of all, I want to say thank you for saying, fuck, because now and often I don't have to pretend like I don't curse all the time.
Jessica McKinley 31:45
Producers are not pleased with me every time they're like, really, this episode's not gonna be able to air and indeed I
Collier Landry 31:52
tried to do I tried to do it. I'm like, I can't tell you that. So I have a friend that has runs a successful the true crime podcast called The first degree and it was Alexis Linkletter and when she started listening to her podcast, she says talking I'm like, oh, okay, thank god. She's like, Yeah, just be real. And I'm like, thank God. Yeah, like trying to say the F word. But no, it's not what life is about. And I'm not going to be egregious about it. But
Jessica McKinley 32:12
this is a sensitive topic, and it's emotional. And I think it's important for us.
Collier Landry 32:18
Absolutely. And but it's interesting. So the one of the things about the my podcast is, yes, it's true crime, but it's sort of like, it's sort of not in a lot of ways. Even though I do discuss true crime. I have lived like this true crime, the true crime life. Right, right. Yeah. And I did you know, I probably did what a lot of true crime listeners fantasize about which I solved a murder with a police detective. It just happen to be of my mother, by my father. I mean, I'm, you know, there are parts of the documentary and I'm sharing and, you know, I had him come to the school every day to talk to me because I wasn't safe at home because my father was there. He was traveling back and forth to Erie, Pennsylvania, which is where the house was,
Jessica McKinley 32:58
how did it How long did you live with your father before the trial before you are pulled? Well, I
Collier Landry 33:04
was 25 days. So he was arrested. I was yanked on January 24 1990. The house, and then they arrested him on the morning, the morning of the 25th because they dug up my mother's body that night in Erie. But I was going back and forth with him. And I was like, literally, my grandmother, who was my father's mother was staying with us. And she was really close to my mother, which was odd. Not that they were close together, but because of the behavior that happened. But you know, my father, she would get angry with me and my mom had just bought a cordless phone. So I take the phone and run with it and like hide and you know, a 75 year old or 70 year old woman isn't going to like chase a levy rolled around the house. Yeah, very successfully. So I would sneak this phone and Hi. But I would literally like pull out we have these bookshelves and had crawl spaces, and you know, pull the bookshelves out, when I'd sneak around until like, look to sort of literally find my mother's body like literally to see if she was stuck back there. Like these are the conversations that I'm having with the police sector when I'm 11 years old. And there are guests getting back to my point is, you know, it is true crime and this true crime life with the podcast, but it's also it's also like a message of like inspiration and hope and bringing people on the show that you know, are that have found ways to move past whatever this trauma is that they have or whatever is, you know, not just specifically murder related or crime related. So
Jessica McKinley 34:29
let me ask you, for those of my listeners who do have something that they went through that was a trauma, whether it's grief related or whether it is sexual violence, or whatever the case may be and they do. They're listening, kind of envious of your vulnerability and your willingness to kind of reopen the wound and still be able to focus your time and energy on this and successfully be able to make it your business So essentially, and I think that the word AI sometimes gets a bad rap any, any advice that you have for people who are like feel, really, they really feel called to this mission, but they feel, I don't know, kind of hesitant or nervous to mix it into something that has to do with money or deals or or publicity?
Collier Landry 35:28
I mean, I think that was the Shakespeare quote to thine own self be true. I think that I think, you know, I think, you know, vulnerability is a very, is a very, it is a very now thing, as it as it is, I think it's easier now than ever to be welcomed into the world, expressing these vulnerabilities. And I think the time is ripe for that for people that are struggling with incorporating that into their business, or they're, or they're struggling into, like, to making a difference or saying anything, or sharing their stories, I think now is is a greater time than ever to have the courage to share these things, because people are so much more are so much more accepting of it. I you know, I think even five years ago, 10 years ago, we look at the meatsuit movement, right? Look at these people that have come forward. And look, you know, there was just a settlement. What was it yesterday or two days ago with Prince Andrew and over this whole Glenn Maxwell thing and over this, obviously, him taking advantage of young women are underage. I mean, it just just horrible, just evil, evil in its most pure form, right. And there is the settlement and like, what he's gonna say he didn't do this or that. And so yeah, you know, those things, despite the, the accusations, everything people people seem, you know, and, and the settlements and things, people just go, oh, well, you know, did it make any good, but yeah, you might feel defeatist about it about your impact, but at the end of the day, you are making it you are making an impact. Even as small as it is, it's like, look, I made the film, and then I just, you know, I, because I had to do it, and then the backlash option, just the whole response was, was insane. And, yeah, I think that like when I set out to do it, and I definitely had these things when I was a kid, and I was literally in that foster home. And I would say to myself, you know, I'm gonna let you know, I'm going to stand on stage one day, I'm gonna say these things to people, and I'm going to do it. And I remember when I first discovered TED talks, I'm like, I want to do a TED talk. And I want to speak to it. And I ended up doing it.
Jessica McKinley 37:37
You always knew it was not something that I came to you later, you always knew that kind of you had it within you, like you said, you said, I made this movie because I had to like it was something that you felt like, needed to get out of. There's no
Collier Landry 37:51
choice. Yeah. And I often say that with just an artist in general, because that's what I am. The core. I'm an artist. I'm a filmmaker. I'm a cinematographer photographer at all right. But I there was a choice. And I think that when there's no, I mean, you just you just have to go with it. And you just kind of hope it works. You're like, I hope, I hope that this is going to be well received. I hope, despite there's a lot of stigma. I mean, there's like, I'll just give you an example of my personal life and even just the the the the quagmire that is my personal dating life. So here, you have this guy, and you bring home to mom and dad. And you're like, Oh, he's handsome guy. He seems really nice. He's well spoken. What's his story? Oh, you know, he was 11 years old, his dad murdered his mother. Now, I mean, if I'm a parent, to find out the story, I want to hear about my my girlfriend, my daughter's new boyfriend, or fiance or whatever. You know, there'll be coaching the
Jessica McKinley 38:52
online dating world where they can Google you first
Collier Landry 38:55
for sure. Which I wish I had on my dating profiles. Like literally put everything out there. Like, this is me. You can search me, this is what I like, you know, here's a picture of me standing on a TED stage. Here's a picture of me in front of movie poster, here's a picture. Like, just get it out of the way because I don't want to have to, like, look, I mean, honestly, it's hard for a lot of people but like, you know, I, I often equate the way I grew up a lot of times to it especially came to my, my sort of awareness when I started working in Hollywood, right? Whereas I was almost like a child actor, were child actors kind of often grow up in front of an audience, and you see them evolve, right? And they were a little kid when they started the series, and then they're a teenager when it ends, right. They're driving and they're dating, and, you know, they're they've gone through puberty, and you're like, oh, their voice changed. I sort of was that same way, even though my time in the public spotlight, as far as you know, because I testified at the trial, live on television, so it was like, a thing doesn't happen, obviously does not happen anymore. And they, you know, so I kind of grew up in that spotlight. I guess what I'm trying to say is Yo, I grew up with this sort of stigma following me. And you just have to kind of like, you just kind of have to roll with it. I mean, it still happens and people are you sure about that guy or whatever? I mean, I remember I was dating a girl. Oh, yeah, it's got to be murder or just like his father. I mean, it's like, and yeah, I can, I can be very defeatist about that and be like, okay, nobody's gonna love me for who I am. And nobody's really going to care. They're always going to judge me on what my father did. Which may happen, but I have no control over that. I have no, no, I have no, I have nothing for that.
Jessica McKinley 40:33
And I just think is such good advice for anyone who does want to take their personal life and make it a part of their message. And their mission for their business is that ultimately, if you aren't able to separate out other people's thoughts, and feelings and actions in response to your mission, from the point and the purpose and who you are, then you shouldn't probably do it. Because at the end of the day, what you just said was the reason why I think that you and Tara Westover and Nora McInerny are so healthy in the way that you talk about such fucked up shit, is because you are able to put some distance between who you are as a person and what happened to you, and what you're saying, and what other people are thinking and what they're interpreting. And I think that, you know, a lot of people have fear and their biggest fear about going on and trying to pursue this mission that might really be on their heart. Like you said, they're an artist, they feel like they have to do it. But they're living in fear of what other people might think and or do in response of it. So you said that really well, I thought,
Collier Landry 41:47
yeah, I mean, I think that if my future self had said anything to me in that moment, whatever, like, you don't want nobody else to live your life, but you. You gotta live your own life, and just say, Fuck it all. And I think that was just, you know, and, again, you don't say that in like an indignant way. It's not like an entitled thing. It's not like, Oh, crap, no more, I'll just say, no, no, that's not what I'm saying. That's a pity party. That's self serving.
Jessica McKinley 42:15
And that goes back to the parts where I'm saying to where I don't see that in you. It's not coming from this victim place of me against the world. And I'm telling you guys how it is it really is self aware. And it's also just cavalier about the things that are facts that other people might like, just because they're facts does not mean that they're not difficult for people to process. And most people think, like, the way that I teach as well, if facts and circumstances are neutral, and then we have our story, and our thoughts about the neutral things that happen and like murder is bad is a thought that I am glad to keep. Right. And, and I'm glad to think and I think that, you know, there is that thing with sociopaths to can just like look at things in such a neutral way. And they don't necessarily have that feelings part that comes.
Collier Landry 43:10
Don't get into it, they don't look at it in a certain way. I mean, that's, that's a way to describe it, so people can comprehend it that are normal people. So sociopath, sociopaths, and this is what I talked about in the TED Talk, is that there's a thing called the mirror neuron system, which is our limbic system, right? Which is where our ability to feel to understand to empathize with other human beings, right, you know, 20 to 21 years ago, towers went down in New York and lower Manhattan, and the world watched and just hearts broke, right. And we empathize. And we tried to understand what what happened and, and, and, and put ourselves on that level. Sociopaths don't do that. Even I even had doesn't even occur, it doesn't even happen. And there was a very specific, you know, when I'm filming the scene with my father in prison, right? I mean, this is, this is like a textbook example. In the scene in the prison, I come into the room, and my father is in a very like jovial sort of mood where he comes in the room rather, I'm sitting there and he has this very Hi, good to see you about, you know, little small talkie right? And then I hit my father with this statement and saying, this is Dr. Phil, I was like, you know, I say the statement and then all the roots like all the air got sucked out of the room and just like it got real, like, shake out real soon. So this is one of the things I've been interested in my entire life, ever since she murdered my mother. And literally, as soon as I said that, to him, his whole demeanor change. And it was the first time that I that I that I said that to him, like right there because I've been waiting for 26 years or 25 years at this time to say this to 2627 years, whatever it was, and his whole demeanor changes and but my father legit thought that I was making a film to help him get out of Present?
Jessica McKinley 45:01
Yeah, I mean, it goes to the sociopath.
Collier Landry 45:06
It's just it's all about them. It doesn't, it doesn't even occur to them. And so, you know, it's and so I'm done filming this, you know, I'm looking at everyone and just he leaves. I'm just like, stunned, just like, can somebody just telling me that the same blood, of course, is mine, that his veins does not correspond, because I just I don't know, I was just really shaken up by it. Because if somebody is, you hear about these horrible things. And granted, this is my whole life. So I've known my Father. But again, it's just kind of come to that realization that some people are just just like born evil, and like you'll never, ever as a conscious being as a person who has empathy and the way that the world is, and understands these things ever be able to understand it, you just knock out and that's a good thing.
Jessica McKinley 45:51
Well, I think that the moral hair really is, is that you've proven and I know, I keep referencing Tara, Nora, and I'm sure there's countless other examples that really, trauma doesn't have to make you into a person who doesn't have humor, who doesn't have lightness to them, and who sees things in the same way, as the circumstances may have set them out to, to see the world. So I just think for those of you listeners, do you have one last last message to anyone who is healing from their own trauma and or looking to really do what you say so eloquently in your podcast, and just move past it and help other people moves past their particular trauma? In a business way? No, heavy question.
Collier Landry 46:54
You're not your circumstances. And you can be both the author and the audience of your own life. And when you do, as hard as it is, since it's worth it, it really is in the end, I wouldn't change anything about my life. That's probably a very dramatic, and, and maybe difficult thing to understand, or to comprehend for a lot of people, but it's the truth.
Jessica McKinley 47:25
No, I can see that you mean it when you say it. And I think that, I hope that this episode really resonates that I just know that it will, because it's its integrity, its authentic, you can feel it through. And I know I get to look at you. And for those of you who are listening now that this is also available on YouTube for you to just get to know Collier, he is a person with depth like we all are. And for those of you who are listening, that really are moved by this, I encourage you to go and check out his podcast moving past murder. And check them out. All the information will be in the show notes. But I just wanted to say thank you so much Collier for coming on the show and for being vulnerable. Honestly, I welcome to tears, I welcome the cursing. It's real life. We're human fucking beings, and the feelings part of it. It's what makes business and the the humaneness is what makes business worth doing. And honestly Other than that, I don't want to do business, I don't want to give my attention, my energy, my money to someone who I feel like is has an ulterior motive and is not really showing who, who they are and that they can be affected, like you said, can be not just the author of their message, but can be the audience too. I thought that that was so beautiful. I'm gonna be quoting that for a long time to come.
Collier Landry 48:51
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. This is wonderful.
Jessica McKinley 48:55
Yes, thank you so much and good luck with I know you've gotten a lot of big interviews and whatnot that have been on the jacket. So just good luck. I think that what you're doing for your mom to honor her is brave and vulnerable and important. So thank you
Collier Landry 49:15
it's really interesting to hear myself go through all of that and you know, of course I get emotional because I always do and whenever I'm you know, I've said this many times on the program where I feel like I can look back on my life that I have created, but also on what I did when I was that young, and everything that I've faced and I think that the the most important thing for me that I would say to my as my future you is just you did the right thing. And I don't think I really realized that at the time, I knew it was the right thing to do. I didn't think about the repercussions of what I was doing or the ramifications or the, you know, the positive ramifications in this case. I mean, I guess that's, you know, take that with a grain of salt, it was positive or negative. I mean, it was a very horrific situation, obviously. But I think that when I look back on that moment in my life now, which I do a lot, I just am very grateful. I'm really grateful that I did what I did. Because I know that I can look at myself every day in the mirror and go, you did the best you could. And you took something that was a utter tragedy, and tried your best to spin it in such a positive light. And for me, that's really all I can ask myself, right. I mean, I like to be a lot more successful in my life and, you know, in terms of things that I want to accomplish, or I like to do, but I do feel really good about where I've gone and where I've arrived and where I am and where I'm going or, we're actually where I am right now and talking to you guys. It's it's wild thinking back to that time in my life. I'm not gonna lie. It's not triggering. It's not but it is emotional. But I'll get into this a lot more as I often do, of course. I guess I'm just glad that I had the integrity and the I learned that from my mother to be that person for her in that moment. It's a cool feeling, at least now. So on that note, I'm Collier Landry, and this is Moving Past Murder. Thanks y'all.
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