Author & Journalist Rebecca Reisner On Ethical True Crime & Her New Book Forensic Files Now #60
In this episode of Moving Past Murder, journalist, blogger, and newly published author Rebecca Reisner joins the program to talk about her new book "Forensic Files Now", based on her wildly successful blog of the same name.
Rebecca shares some of her favorite cases in the book, including Chapter 27 based on Collier's own family's case.
•Collier raises some of the challenges creators face when creating "ethical" true crime content.
•Collier and Rebecca discuss why it is important in true crime NOT to glorify the perpetrators,but to lift up the victims and survivors.
•Rebecca shares her approach of how she takes care to handle victims' and/or their families stories with the utmost respect.
•Collier shares how his own episode of Forensic Files led him to an awkward dating situation while on a date.
You can find Rebecca's book here on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3EE7HH1
Rebecca's website: https://www.forensicfilesnow.com
YouTube link to this episode:
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YouTube link to this episode:
Rebecca Reisner: [00:00:00] It was horrible for her. She, she couldn't be a TV producer anymore cuz she couldn't carry heavy equipment. Uh, but she did something good, which is, she went, she traveled back to Florida so that they could prosecute. Uh, The perpetrator, which most people didn't wanna do, can't blame them, But you know, if you're a tourist, you're attacked in, in Miami, you just wanna go home to Minnesota.
You don't wanna go back to my Miami to help with this [00:00:30] investigation, but sure, sure she did. And she got the guy put away for life. And then what she did, which is kind of like what you're doing, is she wanted to help other people. She wanted to use what happened to her, um, for good. And she started a. Of health, health groups, self help groups for people who have, um, been the victim of trauma like her.
Testimony continued. Today in the most [00:01:00] notorious criminal
Collier Landry: trial in Richland County history. Dr. John Boyle is accused of killing his wife Noreen, and burying her body in the basement of his new home in Erie, Pennsylvania. The 12 year old son finally took the stand as I heard a scream.
Rebecca Reisner: I heard a thud was
Collier Landry: about this loud.
We the jury, find the defendant guilty. When I was 12 years old, my testimony sent my father to prison for murdering my mother. This podcast serves. Type of therapy and reconciliation for myself, and it is my hope that it helps anyone [00:01:30] who has experienced deception, betrayal, and dark trauma. I'm Collier Landry, and this is Moving Past Murder.
Hey movers. Welcome back to another episode of Moving Past Murder. I'm your host, Callier Landry, and what's going on? Oh, What's going on? People? Happy Friday? Um, God, it's been a strange week. I'm not even kidding. Somebody's telling me it's Mercury retrograde or maybe we're out of the retrograde. I don't know.
I don't [00:02:00] know a lot about these things. Uh, I, I just know there's been a lot of tech issues lately. There's been a lot of communication issues. Is that a mercury retro thing? I don't know. Why don't you guys tell me in the comments if I've hit that on the head or not? I do. I am somebody who is, uh, you know, I, I sort of somewhat follow astrology as far as like my horoscope and things, and I definitely, I'm a Pisces, so I definitely think that I am very much a Pisces person.
I'm a creative, a creative professional. It's very much in line with what a Pisces is. I. [00:02:30] Little emotional. Uh, that's why I have the fish koi fish tattoo. Yeah. Woohoo. Um, for those of you watching on YouTube. Uh, but yeah, there's been a lot of like weird stuff going on, and I'm not talking about like what's in the world.
I'm talking about my own personal little corner microcosm of the universe. A lot of interesting heck and, and just weird things happening. But, uh, it seems to be. So, but it has been a strange week nonetheless. But I just, uh, I'm also a little emotional, um, of a very, very dear friend of [00:03:00] mine. Uh, her name is Sharon Rocky Rodio, and we have been working on a film together for the last, almost four years, called 1946, and I am very happy and proud to say, That, uh, we can officially announce that we are, uh, having our world premier at Doc NYC Film Festival in New York City on November the 12th, 2022.
That is in less than a month from today. Uh, and I will be there for that Premier. I am so excited. I was the director of photography on the, on the [00:03:30] shoot and I was the, uh, post production supervisor and did some graphics for them and just, I kind of just did a lot of stuff on the film and I've been there since the film's inception.
Get a little emotional. I am. Beyond proud of her. Um, so you can follow her at 1946, the movie on TikTok or on Instagram or on Twitter. Uh, and she is just a really, um, wonderful person in my life. Uh, the film deals with, uh, religion and L G B T [00:04:00] Q. Rights. And, um, I'm not gonna get into too much of that. I don't discuss religion or politics on this program.
And I know some, some of my audience, some of you guys are very liberal and some of you guys are very conservative. But no matter what side of the spectrum you sit on in all of these things, uh, it is an amazing feat for someone to create a film about something that they are truly passionate about that has touched their lives in many ways.
And to see. [00:04:30] Dream come to fruition is a monumental achievement. So, um, as someone who has done. Uh, I can just, I am just beaming with absolute pride, Mind the pun. I am beaming with absolute pride for my, my dear friend Rocky, who has been there through thick and thin with me personally and professionally.
We go way back and she is a wonderful human, and I'm so proud of her and all of the, all of the family of 1946 and Cass [00:05:00] Crew. It's a, it's an amazing documentary. It's gonna be, you know, like I said, it's not for everyone, but it is a, um, it is a monumental achievement on her part, and I'm just beaming with pride.
I'm so excited. So anyways, enough of that. Uh, thank you guys for tuning in. Uh, I have a great episode today. Uh, another friend of mine has just released a book and this book is called Forensic Files Now, and it is by a dear friend of the program. Rebecca Reisner, she runs the forensic files now blog, [00:05:30] uh, that she's been doing for I think like maybe 5, 6, 7, 8 years.
Um, I had interviewed Rebecca last year, um, uh, because she contacted me about the book and she's done the blog. She talked to many people in, um, my world that were involved in the case and. Forensic files is one of those shows that did a story on my family's case and on me. And, um, it is my, I've talked about it several times on the [00:06:00] program and talked about it a lot of times with my fellow True Crime, uh, true crime survivors, advocates.
And, um, you know, it comes up a lot with ethical true crime, uh, conversations. So today we're gonna discuss a little bit about that. We're gonna talk about her book, but I do wanna say this, you know, there are many, in my opinion, there are many true crime. Programs, podcasts, film, television, whatever, what have you, media that do exploit, uh, true crime victims, uh, survivors, families, [00:06:30] things of that nature.
Forensic files, as we will discuss in this, in this episode, is one of those shows that while it does deal with forensic horrific crimes, mostly of, of the murder category, it, it, it really does high. The detective work done around these cases and what these forensic. Uh, investigators, scientists, detectives have done to solve these cases and to bring justice for the [00:07:00] families of the victims.
And, um, that is a really cool thing. Also, uh, the program which I've learned, uh, has really, really takes a lot of care when they reach out to victims. Look, Forensic files reach out to me. Uh, my episode is, I believe, season five, episode 13. It's called Foundation of Lies. Uh, again, it's probably the top, one of the top 10 episodes of the show.
They've had 400 some episodes. A lot of people recognize me cuz I was a kid on the witness stand, obviously. Uh, but they, you know, they reached out to me. I did not participate. It was [00:07:30] a, they did offer me compensation. It wasn't enough as, as I had said at the time, but, uh, but I'm glad that we did reach out to me.
Rebecca reached out to me. She said, Hey, I'm, I'm writing about your mom. And, and, uh, you know, I've, I've talked about this case before. And she wanted to be very, she was very ethical in my opinion. And, uh, so we became friends and I wanted to promote her book. It comes out tomorrow, or I'm sorry. Oh yeah, Tomorrow.
Cuz it's, cuz we are on Friday comes out tomorrow, October 15th. Uh, it is through the imprint, uh, Prometheus books. Bars and noble.com, [00:08:00] Amazon, wherever you get your books from, you can find it. But first, uh, for those of you that join me on Patreon and you can check me out, patreon.com/call Your Land Ring, I do a monthly meet and greet with my VIP members.
And this month we are doing ours on October the 25th, we are doing a costume contest because it's Bki Halloween. Right. And, uh, of course we wanna. A fun time. So we're gonna do a costume contest. There is a prize if you're not on my Patreon, but you wanna join? You wanna be there for the meet and greet.
Meet [00:08:30] my wonderful community of movers and shakers, , come join us. Join the patreon patreon.com/call Your Landry. It helps to support this program that you are listening to or watching right now. And if you're on YouTube, please like and subscribe. And if you're on Apple Podcast, Spotify, please subscribe.
Please give us a positive. I really appreciate it. Enough of the spiel I wanna get to this week's listener question. So this one comes from Star Alaska on Instagram, and they say, Hi, Collier, [00:09:00] After listening to your podcast episode made for your beautiful mom's birthday about your dad's manipulation, I had to let you know that you are right about constantly.
Reminding yourself that your dad chose his actions and his consequences, which inadvertently unfairly chose yours for you. What is selfish lust driven monster? He had the choice to divorce beautiful nore and allow her along with yourself and her and your sister to blossom out of his evil grasp. Not to mention the constant infidelity he put your family through.
Call your keep [00:09:30] reminding yourself of this when feelings of empathy for, for your, for the devil creep in. You are an amazing person. Callier and obviously take after gorgeous. No in talent and good looks. Sending sunshine and positive energy to you. Star from Australia. Well, thank you star. That is really very kind of you to say that.
Yeah, I like to think that my father chose his consequences too. But yes, sometimes it is hard for me to, I feel like as a trauma survivor [00:10:00] or true crime victim, survivor, whatever you call it, right? As a survivor in general, I think that you're always gonna have these sort of feelings of doubt, guilt, shame.
Maybe it's survivor shame. I'm sure that's probably a thing I should probably know that. I think, yeah, in fact that is a thing. I think survivor shame is a thing that they feel that they have survived and the other person was killed. Um, I know a lot of people live in the shadow of guilt and then also they feel guilty for the actions of the perpetrator too.
In [00:10:30] this case, being my father, I mean, it is a really odd sort of tight rope to walk emotionally an emotional tight rope. Uh, because I do think about a lot of the things about my. And I guess, you know, I didn't really realize until after I made a murder, Mansfield exactly how far away from my father I was in terms of thoughts, feelings, um, the way I carry myself, the way, you know, I always, I think [00:11:00] I've mentioned several times on this program before that I often wonder like, Oh, could I have perpetrated a crime like that?
Because I think that's only natural that you would think that way. I mean, look, we're all sort. You know, we're all human beings and we were like, Oh, okay. Am I capable of such a thing? Uh, I'm glad to really understand that I. Would not be that person, uh, which is a good feeling. But, um, the thank you star for your message.
I really appreciate it. So, as I said before, my guest today is Rebecca Reisner. She is [00:11:30] the author and creator of the forensic Files Now blog, and now she has written a book, uh, of the same name that features some of the similar stories, my story included, uh, but it's never before seen interviews. Of course, even with.
And, uh, you know, I've had Rebecca on the program before we discussed, but this time I wanna talk about because it's been a while. Uh, you know, since I've done the podcast. Now, this is, I believe, episode 58, 59, something like that. You know, I've learned a lot about True Crime doing this. And, you [00:12:00] know, from a survivor's perspective, we talk about my dear friend Tara Renewal and her situation as well.
Her, her and I are doing the Survivor Squad podcast. We wax about a lot of things, all things true crime. So, uh, and her book. So please welcome to the program again, Rebecca Reisner. So Rebecca Reisner, uh, welcome back to the program and um, it's so good to see you again. Thank you. It's great
Rebecca Reisner: to see you too.
Collier Landry: So, Rebecca, the last time we spoke, you actually, you had reached out to me because you were doing [00:12:30] something called this. Yes. The book Forensic Files now because. Have adopted or adapted your, your blog into a book. Exactly. So why don't you, I mean, is it out yet or it's coming out right? Prometheus? Yeah.
Rebecca Reisner: October 15th. It'll be in bookstores. Amazon, um, walmart.com. All basically all major bookstores in all major, um, online sellers of [00:13:00] books. A million, it'll be on that. Um, so yeah, so it's just coming out and basically my blog is for, it started out just for people who liked forensic files, which there are plenty of, and because the show is old, it, it, all, 400 episodes of it were made prior to 2011.
but they're shown all over the world and people are wondering what happened to these cases since, you know, since uh, the, the program [00:13:30] was produced. So I would research and find out what's happened since then, and also find out new things about the cases that forensic files the TV show couldn't fit into 22.
And the book. I thought it would be fun, you know, to have it in book form. People could read it at the beach or whatever. And for each story I got a little something extra that wasn't in the blog. So there's a reason to buy the book, you know, new interviews, I think chapter 27, which I think is a lady named, [00:14:00] um, last name is Boyle.
First name's Nore. I, I, Yes, yes. There's part of an interview with you that, that we did that's not on the blog, it's just in the book. And, um, so yeah, so that's, that's what it is. And there also also includes, uh, question answer quite in depth with Paul Doling, who was the creator, is the creator of Forensic Files, and a bit about the narrator, Peter [00:14:30] Thomas.
Peter Thomas was one of the Sure. Two greatest, uh, male voice, voice, uh, artists of the, of the Post World War ii, uh, Era. Era here. I, yeah. Thank you.
He is one. Now you're probably too young to remember this, but he is the one who did the American Express commercials. What will you do? What will you do?
Collier Landry: Oh yeah, I do, I do re [00:15:00] remember seeing those. I've, you know, seen those on replays for sure. .
Rebecca Reisner: Yeah, he did Thet commercials. The astronauts took Tan to the Moon.
Um, yeah. So, yeah, so it's, it's, that's what's that such a great show. It just, everything is done right on that show. And, um, so that's my story and I've, you know, I've really enjoyed meeting you because you're, you understand media and Yeah, it's very easy to talk to. and, you know, you were able to take something horrible [00:15:30] and, and make some good things out of it.
And another person I have on the book is, um, Helga. Loose. Loose. She was a TV producer. She got, she was a victim of the, the Miami robbery crime wave in the 1990s. Tourists were being, uh, routinely kind of Shanghai or, or robbed, sometimes killed. and she was beaten severely, uh, in an attack above, [00:16:00] you know, when she was in, she was visiting Miami, she was a tourist.
She got lost from, on her way back from the airport. She pulled into an alley and to, uh, you know, violent thugs. Attack the car. One of them bit down on her arm so hard that when she finally was able to to drive away, he hung on a little bit to her arm. So anyway, she, Yeah. Wow. And what she did, what, what good came out of this car?
I mean, it was horrible for her. She, she couldn't be a TV producer anymore cause she couldn't carry [00:16:30] heavy equipment. Uh, but she did something good, which is, she went, she traveled back to Florida so that they could prosecute. The perpetrator, which most people didn't wanna do, can't blame them, but you know, if you're a tourist, you're attacked in, in Miami, you just wanna go home to Minnesota.
You don't wanna go back to Miami to help with this investigation, but sure, sure she did. And she got the guy put away for life. And then what she did, which is kind of like what you're doing, [00:17:00] is she wanted to help other people. She wanted to use what happened to her, um, for. and she started a, a couple of health health groups, self-help groups for people who have, um, been the victim of trauma.
Like her, you know, whatever, you know, doesn't have to be what happened to her, but, you know, violence and, and yeah, of course, these hard things that, that unfortunately happened to people. And she also started kind of a movement called trauma informed [00:17:30] whereby she helped. Inform people how they could help the traumatized, you know, what, what are the right things to say and do.
And um, you know, so that's, um, she's in there and I have a new interview with her too. And it's great working with her cuz she also unders, she was a TV producer. She understands media. Um, so she's great to work with.
Collier Landry: that's, um, I mean it's, it's horrible what happened to her now. Um, so how about, so how many [00:18:00] chapter, how many cases are in this book? I know that I'm, my mother's case. My family's case is chapter 27. Yes, I believe
Rebecca Reisner: 27. They're, um, 40, 40 chapters with each, with each a self contained true crime story. Um, and there's enough information there that even if you don't watch forensic files, it's the whole story's there.
You don't have to, unless you.
Collier Landry: Now, you know, right now, at this moment, at this particular moment in time where we're at, right? We've gone through, you know, several [00:18:30] movements in the last five, six years, right? We've gone through the Me Too movement, the kind of rocked Hollywood, right? Is still sort of making its way through.
Um, but raised awareness, right? And then we have, you know, obviously Black Lives Matter, they kind of carry through the pandemic, but now we're sort of entering this phase. And, you know, the last time I had you on the program, I was talking to you about people's obsession with true crime and how I was trying to really understand that, right?
As someone who, who didn't [00:19:00] ask to be part of True Crime, this fascination. And of course, I'm really well known as being the kid on the witness. , you know, in the episode of Forensic Files, um, which I believe is called, um, uh, Foundation of Lies. Yes. Um, and the, the, now we're talking a lot about ethical true crime treatment of, of victims, of survivors of their stories.
Media exploitation. Yes. Um, and all of that. And [00:19:30] like, you know, we have programs like Dateline, we have. Uh, podcasts that are, that are built essentially on some people's, people's worst day of their lives. Right? For me, forensic files is, obviously it talks about these cases, right? But for me, a program like this, and, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like, cuz it's called forensic files, it really is about what got the [00:20:00] perpetrator.
The mistakes that, that were made. The good police work that these forensic scientists. That these detectives did, right? Yeah. Oh yeah. And how does that, so how does that fit with you? Like how does that sit with you as far as ethical, true crime and sharing these stories? Because Yeah.
Rebecca Reisner: Yeah. It, it is. And.
Part of it is, you know, you are, you are writing about [00:20:30] things that certain people really don't want you to write. Um, and if people, it's only happened once or twice, but, um, you know, on a couple occasions where people said, you know, could you please take this off your website? I have, cuz I'm, I'm not trying to cause anybody, any, um, the thing is here, here's what I, a crime, like, murder, um, or any violent, horrifying.
It does become kind of part of the public domain. I mean, it's the most horrible thing that can happen. [00:21:00] And it's not gonna be a private matter when it's, when somebody's broken the law, people are gonna, you know, somebody gets murdered or on your block. Oh yes, just give, you know, this is a private matter.
How can you do it, you know? I think the important thing when as proposed, you know, not exploiting it, is first of all giving the person a chance to help tell his or her own story. Letting that person, if that person doesn't wanna talk about it, [00:21:30] make it very clear in the narrative that you tell that this person does not, you know, wants to forget about this and move on and just doing good research.
You know, I always make sure to, I check on, I do everything online, some so, Phone interviews with, with people, but you know, I always make it clear when there are two sources say different things, I let that be known. You know, it's not clear whether this is that or that. Um, but here it is. And [00:22:00] also I don't really take much or really any creative license with it, you know?
so that is that. So, yeah, I mean, I, I think what you're saying is very true. Sure. For many victims of crimes, it would be much better if it was never written about, you know, a book shown on tv, even shown on the news. But it is, it's out there. And, you know, I believe I can tell [00:22:30] these stories in a compassionate way and also in a way that kind of shames the bad guys as well.
Uh, so. Yeah.
Collier Landry: And I think, and I, I think what you just said hits the nail in the head. Like there is a lot of talk, obviously with this Dahmer show that has come out that's directed by Ryan Murphy or show Run by Ryan Murphy, created by Ryan Murphy. I mean, he does everything right. Um, you know, and, and the emotional sort of scarring that some of these victims are going [00:23:00] through.
And, you know, obviously Dahmer, much like my father is a psychopath Wow. And is a monster and has destroyed people's lives. You know, he obviously touched more lives than my father did as far as victims, but the damage was pretty severe in both men's wake. Right. And I feel like, you know, when I, I think part of the, the thing that these victims, their families, Or the, [00:23:30] the survivors or where people get angry with this is exactly that.
It's the glorification of the perpetrator. Yeah, the iation of the perpetrator. You know, much like people idolize John Wayne Casey, uh, Charles Manson, Um, these people who have done horrific things, and I think that is probably the biggest sting. You know, [00:24:00] when you approached you, I mean, you approached me and you said, Hey, I'm writing this.
I do a blog. I've interviewed, you know, I believe you interviewed Dave Mess more years ago, correct?
Rebecca Reisner: No, not Dave. No, it was, I don't think I talked to him. I talked to the, the local newspaper reporter who covered the whole thing. Char Charlie
Collier Landry: Humel, right? No, his last name. It might have been funny who. Funny.
Gerald Fuddy or, Or Fu or Fuddy or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Rebecca Reisner: Yeah, I'll look it up. . Yeah. Maybe John Fuddy. [00:24:30]
Collier Landry: John Fuddy. Yeah. Cuz Gerald Fuddy was Children's Services for those of you that are, are from Mansfield, Ohio, they're going, No. It's this, this, this know better than I do. No, but, um, but it, it's, it's, you know, you, you have really strived to, and like you said, you take down, if, if a victim approaches you, uh, and says, Hey, you know, I, I don't want, I don't want this out there.
You, you respect that, right? Yeah, I do. And you try to, and you try to really, [00:25:00] um, because you're a journalist by trade, like that is your thing. You know, that's how you came into this. And so you have that journal. You have that journalistic experience and you understand integrity and you know, but you also understand that there's a news aspect to it.
And yeah, you say it is a, it is a public domain story, but again, with these forensic files cases, I feel like, you know, there's this one side where you have the victims don't. [00:25:30] To be, or the families don't like to be reminded of this, right? Some people just want to go away. I obviously do not go away. I'm very public and I don't get offended or butt hurt when people do this.
I just go, Well, why don't you just put my Twitter handle on, on your on your post, or whatever. Why don't you give a shout out? Why don't you talk to me? Cuz I'll talk to you. I'm very, I'm an open book. Right? But I feel like other people just wanna live a quiet life. What do you, how do you, how do you think the media.[00:26:00]
Needs to sort of straddle that. I mean, because again, true crime is so popular and it, it's the hot, it's, I would say it's the hot new thing. But I mean, I remember watching Unsolved Mysteries when I was a kid. Oh, that was perfect. Yeah. And that was a, a ridiculously popular, popular show and much like forensic files, and you had this, this fascination, how do you think that creators in that space, What, what they can really do to sort of straddle that fine [00:26:30] line between exploitation and, and artistic liberty, if you will.
Rebecca Reisner: Right, right. Well, um, one thing that I really hate that some of the network true crime shows do is they try to get people to cry on camera. Yeah. Um, they do that, you know, um, they, you know, they kind of poke at them with questions they know the person doesn't. Wanna answer. Um, you know, even if the persons sometimes [00:27:00] says, you know, I don't wanna answer, they kind of poke at that.
So I, you know, I, that's the kind of thing you don't wanna do. Obviously with crime scene pictures, you wanna be very sensitive as to, you know, if you have access to these things, you need to ask the victims, you know, how, how, you know, how up upset is. How upsetting is it that we're gonna show these and. Um, forensic files did, in another show that I recently saw, I can't remember the name of this series, but they [00:27:30] send in, in show in shows in which, um, victims cooperate or, you know, seen, are seen on camera.
They make another version of it without the crime scene photos, you know, without the, um, you know, autopsy photos or, you know, the, the sure chi, the, the deceased person, and they take all those. So that way the person can watch it and see the story, um, but they don't have to confront these horrible photographs.[00:28:00]
Collier Landry: I did not know that. That's very thoughtful.
Rebecca Reisner: Yeah. Yeah. Um, they, yeah, they do that. And, um, yeah, and I
Collier Landry: Well that's a, so, so that's, so that was sort of one of their
Rebecca Reisner: practices. Yeah. They always did that all along and. . Yeah. Now the other thing this they did that was great, although this, this is really actually off, not a little tangential, but, [00:28:30] um, they always forensic files.
I always wanted to make sure that no prime of negligence took place because of the production of the show. They, Paul Delling never gave anybody a budget for. So he said, Just spend as much as you need to to show these recreations, which, which are very taste tasteful, tastefully done on the show. It's not like one of those wives with knives or something.
And he said that he just, he never wanted somebody to get hurt because, you know, there wasn't [00:29:00] enough money to have whatever you have on a tv, you would probably be able to tell me more, you know, Um Sure, of course. Whatever you need to, to the set to be here to have on set to make sure that no one gets hurt.
And Stu, Stunt
Collier Landry: coordinator, for example, .
Rebecca Reisner: Yes. Exactly like that. So, you know, they did 400 episodes, all 400 had some, uh, portions, you know, being recreation, and no one ever got heard. So,
Collier Landry: and in all fairness, you know, forensic files, Their [00:29:30] producers did reach out to me and want me to be on the show. Hm. And they were gonna pay me.
I didn't think it was enough. And, and I, we just sort of agreed to disagree. Right. And so I didn't, I said, I'm just not gonna participate. And, um, you know, it's fine. I never wished them any ill will or anything. Oh, I, you never told me that. Yeah. Yeah, they did. And they were going to, and I said, you know, but I'm glad that I did that because as someone who is a victim survivor, , [00:30:00] um, turned creator.
You know, I've always been able to control my own narrative. Oh, and I think between the last time that we spoke on this program and now is, you know, I, you mentioned Tara renewal earlier, who I'm doing the new, uh, podcasts we're doing together called Survivor Squad, right? Where we interview survivors in their own words.
And you said that earlier, you want people to share their story in their own words if they talk to you. What happened And [00:30:30] you, you, you have, um, you've published me in this book, you have quoted me appropriate accurately and appropriately. And, and you were very thoughtful with that. Even saying, Hey, this is what I'm writing.
Are you okay with this? Great. I wanna run some things by you. Is that okay? Great. You know, and still keeping your creative liberty of course. Or your, your, your, your style. But you, you did ask me in all fairness, but I have seen so much of where, um, These, these survivors do get [00:31:00] their, their story just becomes controlled by podcasts, media, film, and television, all of this stuff without their either approval, their awareness, or their, um, or their, uh, authorization
Yeah. And, and, and that, that is a really difficult line to straddle. And I, and you know, I started like, What is this? But I realized how, how grateful I was. To the show for reaching out to me, even though I didn't go on it because I was like, Well, it's [00:31:30] not enough money, you know, whatever it was. Um, I'm glad because I was able to control my own narrative.
They told the story, but they didn't use me to tell that. They, OB obviously used me on the witness stand as a child and things like that, but they don't. And, and, and it's a unique position where I've been in, which I didn't realize until recently, like how unique of a position that is.
Rebecca Reisner: Yeah. You know, it, it is rare.
And, and may I ask, how did you feel about the footage being took, the file footage of you, um, [00:32:00] testifying? How did you feel about that when you saw the.
Collier Landry: Well, I think so. I think we talked about this before, or I think I told you when you had interviewed me before, but I never, so I only saw the images of the crime scene on a web on, it was on a website, and I could see it from the other side of the room because I was dating someone who then l, she was telling her her gay best friend about me, and he typed in the name and then he found the pictures.
He pulled up a website and she was [00:32:30] like, Don't show him that, because forensic files had come out like that year. But I didn't actually see the episode until I was on a date with a girl and we were sitting on her couch post COAs, if you will, , and we were . She was flipping through the channel and there was this face of this kid on the television.
I was like, Oh, oh. And then she's flipping through and then she looks over at me and then she flips it back. There's me on the witness saying, I'm just [00:33:00] kinda. Yeah, .
Rebecca Reisner: That's, that's me. Oh
Collier Landry: my goodness. Sorry, I told you . So that was awkward. But, um, you know, I never saw, I never actually watched the, the full episode until, I would say probably after I made a murder of Mansfield.
So I would say like 2018. 2019, right. And I think was the first time I saw it. And obviously, yeah, there's a lot of, there, there's some gruesome footage there. Um, it. Y you know, it, it is, it does [00:33:30] affect me for sure. I mean, but also I, I, you know, the, the, as someone who led the police to catch my father, right, for murdering my mother, I also can look back at that program and see the way that they are honoring the crime lab, the forensic scientists, the detectives, right.
And for their work. And I'm really grateful. It because if those people hadn't done their jobs post finding my mother, you know, [00:34:00] my father, you know, his conviction may not have been secured, if you will. Or, or, or his fate might not have been sealed. Right. Because, um, you know, it's, it is the diligent work that those guys did that that.
You know, helped. It is, and
Rebecca Reisner: yes, and, and a lot of times the, the, uh, law officers, lawyers who worked on, maybe the lawyers know, but the, the police, the detectives who worked on it, um, some of them, [00:34:30] they're just so modest, you know that Yeah, sure. There, there are a few that, you know, enjoy hearing themselves talk, which is fine.
Nothing wrong with that. But a lot of them I speak to later who have appeared on camera, on forensic files, they say, Nope, never watched. and, um, they say that, you know, they, they're just one of a part of a team that was able to solve this crime and, and hold someone responsible and they don't wanna call attention to themselves.
And, [00:35:00] um, You know, they, in the ones who were still on the job, likewise, they really, uh, they don't wanna make it to see, seem like the investigation was all about them. It was all about a lot of people working hard and they didn't do it. And, you know, a lot of, they're very, some of them, they let me interview them, I don't wanna say reluctantly, but they're not thrilled about it.
You know, like, Oh, okay, we'll help this person out. But, and sometimes I'll say, Okay, do you want me to send you the link to the blog [00:35:30] post? Eh, it's okay. . So, yeah. You know, that's, that's many of them. They're really, they're faithful public servants who just wanna get these people off the streets and
Collier Landry: Yeah, of course.
Um, you know, I think last time we talked about, you know, obviously, you know, it was interesting because I went to Crime Con this year for the first time. Mm. Which was a very interesting experience, and I, Oh, wow. You know, I made, I made little flyers with my photo of me [00:36:00] with on the witness stand. Oh, that's great.
And pass them out, you know, just to kind of promote the podcast. But it is so they, people look at the picture and they're like, I, I know, I know this. I don't know you, but I know this kid , and it's from that forensic files episode. Oh yeah. Because of that. And I think, you know, one of the things when you approached me, you said that, and I think we discussed last time, was that the, the thing that you felt, which was what [00:36:30] really connected with the audience on my episode, was the fact that a kid was involved, a child was testifying against a parent,
Rebecca Reisner: Right?
A child testifying and they wanna know what happened to that. You know, they're, they get involved in the story and, um, you know, and it's not in any kind of morbid way. It's, it's just human drama. High, high human drama. And, um, yeah, they, they wanna, And,
Collier Landry: and I, and, and I think for me, that is one of the things that [00:37:00] I've really, you know, look, I, you know, even, even Tara, she gets a lot of, a lot of shit to be blunt about it, for what happens.
Rebecca Reisner: really for
Collier Landry: defending herself. Yeah. For defending herself. And I, I'm looking at this going, you know, this is horrible, what people say sometimes. And it's like, What? You know, what did you expect her to do? . Lie down and get, get murdered. And then this guy goes and murders her whole family. Yeah. Oh [00:37:30] gosh.
Rebecca Reisner: he was a horrible man who, Um, Horrible
Collier Landry: psychopath. Yeah. Mike and I believe Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no, go
Rebecca Reisner: ahead. No, just our horrible man. Um, I, I spoke, actually, I had a phone interview with her mother, Debra Renewal. I, I love everything dirty John, The podcast, the, the, uh, Netflix series, Was it Netflix?
Collier Landry: Hang on. Well, Netflix has it now, but it was on, originally on Bravo. Bravo usa. Yeah.
Rebecca Reisner: Yeah, yeah. I, I, [00:38:00] um, I just find it, I con, men just fascinate me. Um, so. Now I forget what I was gonna say. Wait, Deborah. Oh, she said Deborah Ne said that she thought that this, this attack on her daughter Tara, was going to be a kidnapping That, um, she, he, you know, John me and was gonna kidnap Tara and try to get Deborah to do something over it.
I, I [00:38:30] don't know what it. , Um, I was just curious is, is that your understanding of what happened or,
Collier Landry: That is most certainly not my understanding of what happened. Okay. But I wasn't there, but I, but I, I don't know, because according to Tara, the, uh, the knife was in a Dell taco bag and he started punching her with the Dell taco bag, and the knife was hidden inside that.
And then when the investigators, you know, obviously came to the [00:39:00] scene, apparently his trunk was full of knives. So I don't know, um, what part of, maybe, maybe it was a, maybe it was a kidnapping, torture, kill thing. I don't, I don't know. But I would say that I, I would say that, uh, if I was to shake the Magic eight ball, uh, it would say all signs point towards.
Murder. . Okay. . I would say that he was go, he was coming to kill her and he was probably going to take out the whole family. Cause I believe that he wrote even in a diary. So that would be interesting that Deborah would say [00:39:30] that. But again, I don't, I don't know the family dynamic. I don't know anything about that situation, wasn't there.
But I do know what Tara has told me and. It is not that , I don't think she thought he was just gonna kidnap her. He was started punching her with a, with a bag over his, over his knife wielding hand. So, no. Yeah, there was no kid attempt. And she's a little thing, by the way. She's not, you know, this guy's, you know, my size, you know, six two, right?
[00:40:00] 200 some pounds. I mean, he was obviously a little bit more emaciated because he was in the throes of drug addiction and heavy drug usage. But you know, A very, you know, twice the size of her easily.
Rebecca Reisner: Yeah. She's, I I've heard that she's very tiny in person. Um,
Collier Landry: yeah.
Rebecca Reisner: So yeah, her story is just, again, her story is so amazing because it, it's what happens in the movies.
All the time and, and police shows, the victim gets the what, you know, the female, the [00:40:30] small female victim gets, gets the big man's, uh, knife away from him. And, but it almost never happens in real life. And here it really happened. She got, you know, she got the knife and she defended herself with it. Yeah.
It's nothing short of a miracle. Yeah. I mean, yes. Like one, you know, one, one in like 10,000 chance
Collier Landry: that that happened. Yeah. Yeah. What are the odds? I mean, that's, that's what makes her so unique in the fact that she could. Be coherent and not like, you know, a lot of people would freeze up in that situation or play dead.
I mean, I think some, [00:41:00] some people even say to her, Why didn't she just play dead? The what, ? But to her, I mean, but I think that some people would do that. And, you know, I don't, I think that she, you know, she realized that, that that wasn't gonna cut it , you know, that she had to defend herself and, and, um, . I applaud her for that
Rebecca Reisner: because it's not, Yeah, that's good for her.
Collier Landry: it's something, it's, it just sounds like she's proud of that, you know, And that's, you know, when we discuss the, you know, again, these comments that, you know, come on [00:41:30] TikTok or Instagram or wherever, mostly TikTok, but you know, people just weigh in. It's very, I think this is this, you know, taking back to the, the sort of the ethical true crime conversation.
I think it's one of the things. When these programs get made or these shows come out, and then even the person who is the victim or the survivor is, is speaking out, they tend the public or the, the consumer with their opinions will, It's very [00:42:00] easy to hide behind a wall of social media. and these power social relationships and excoriate the victims.
Oh, I know. Or the survivors horrible. And that, I think is probably the most vicious thing is that, is because, you know, a lot of these people, they want to go away. Then there's a, then there is a, uh, a case that comes to prominence and then it's like you're just a, you know, a few keystrokes away while you're watching television.
Oh, what happened to. Call your boil. Okay. Call your boil. Call your land. Landry. [00:42:30] Okay. Mansfield. Oh wow. He's got a Facebook page. Oh, he is got an Instagram or he is a filmmaker. I'll look at this. He's got a YouTube thing, you know, And then they can contact me cuz they do, I mean, it happens every day. People contact me.
Oh, that's great. Every single day I will get a message from some, I mean, it's not even a message, it's multiple messages and it's either, they see the documentary, they see forensic files, and I'll actually go on because on, on YouTube that people will. They'll rip the forensic files episode, you know, they'll boot like it and then they'll put it on their own channel and then they'll get [00:43:00] like three or 400,000 views and people will be like, Oh, I wonder what happened to this kid with?
And so sometimes I'll go on there, I'll be like, Yeah, I wonder what happened to that kid too. Yeah, .
Rebecca Reisner: Yeah. Actually
Collier Landry: it takes a while, but some people respond. They go, Oh my God, you're the kid. . Ah, okay. I think there are definitely genuine people. There are a lot of people that try to shit on the victims or say, Oh, they stuck around.
You know, one of the things I get a lot. I've heard a lot of is that people will say, Well, you know, your mom, your mom stuck around for the money. And I'm like, [00:43:30] No, my, my father's a doctor, but my father just started making money a few years prior to the murder. Um, he, you know, and my mother stuck around because she loved him and he had been a womanizer for 20 years and we had, they had a child together and she also put him through medical school.
So, Uh, you know, she stuck around because it was a team and she's like, you. You know what I mean? It's not because she's out there tripping the life. Fantastic. [00:44:00] It's, um, you know, it's, uh, but it's interesting, again, it's these power social relationships allow people to hide behind this veil. This cloak can just be like, ah, just jab, jab,
Rebecca Reisner: jab, jab, jab.
Oh, I know. And this is the victim shaming. We don't know what you would do if you're in a situation. I mean, if I, you know, you know, relationships with the are very complicated and it's not that easy. Oh, this guy's a jerk [00:44:30] might leave. There's a big picture there and
Collier Landry: there's a really big picture. Sure.
Coercive control is such a way thing, you know, Tara helped get a law pass in, in California for coercive control, recognizing that as a, as something that exists. Where they can cite case law and say, Oh, this has happened. This person was under coerce of control. Cause it's a very real thing. I mean, look at cults, right?
Rebecca Reisner: Oh yeah. Right,
Collier Landry: right. I mean, you know, look at [00:45:00] the, uh, the Nexium cult with, uh, what's his name? Um, Ranier. Oh yeah. Um, Mark Ranier. I think, you know, you, you look at these, these situations and, and people come under the, the spell of the, of the voodoo doctor, the witch doctor, you. I mean, it's, it's, uh, it's insane.
I feel like we got off topic a little bit, but, um, I started mentioning Voodoo, which, which doctors, but, but it's all the same thing. But I think the thing that, you know, uh, [00:45:30] well, I, you know, tell us about some of your, tell us about some of your favorite cases in this book. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna do another shameless plug.
The book is called Forensic Files Now by Rebecca Reisner. It is out tomorrow. October 15th on Prometheus books and you can get it. Where else? Um,
Rebecca Reisner: Amazon books a million, um, Barnes and Noble. walmart.com. target.com.
Collier Landry: Everywhere. You can get books there. Is there an [00:46:00] audible version as well? Cuz I, I, I read, but I, but I prefer the audible.
Rebecca Reisner: There is. Yeah, Yeah, yeah.
Collier Landry: There. Fantastic. And who reads that? Oh, who's the reader? Yeah. Oh, I don't, Who's the reader? Is it? . Oh, I don't know who it is. I that's, Oh, well you, you don't have to find that
Rebecca Reisner: out. Yeah. I find out one, one of my best listeners is blind and I wanna get that to him. So, um,
Collier Landry: so tell, so tell me about one of your, you know, obviously I'm your favorite case, but your second favorite case in [00:46:30] the, in the book that would, that touched you.
Rebecca Reisner: Mark Winer, um, he is this nice, uh, nice Jewish boy. My mother wish. Would've like just, I, I say if like I brought him home, my mother would've died of ecstasy. You know, he's, he's like an engineer and, um, has a happy marriage with this woman, uh, Donna and, um, in nice guy, uh, the in-law loved him and he [00:47:00] came up with the most diabolical plot ever that's shown on, on forensic files, which is he killed his.
and he killed another guy, a guy, and made it look like the guy had been killing his wife. And, and he shot the guy, made it look like he, he's a hero. And he, um, What did he do? He, he got some money for this. I, I forget while like a victim's fund and maybe some, uh, life insurance on his wife [00:47:30] went along and, um, Oh, he hired a nanny.
They. Adopted a baby before he killed the wife. I guess he wanted to, he wanted to keep the baby all to himself and, and marry a girlfriend. Uh, and then he, he hired a nanny, so of course he impregnated the nanny. They ended up getting married. Wait, I'm getting off. Okay, , I'm getting off. But what I thought was so interesting about that, that particular case is it just shows you like everything is a house of cards.
I mean, these were these lo you know, this couple [00:48:00] they had, you know, who, um, you know, they were lo each loved by their parents and in-laws, they were adopting a baby. Very respectable. She had a job in medicine. I forget what she did. Um, you know, he's an engineer. And meanwhile, it, it was all, you know, all along, he, he was planning to kill her and, well, not all along, but, but, you know, later and, you know, gone, House of cards gone and just that, you know, you, you don't, you never know what's going on beneath the surface of [00:48:30] what you see.
And that's another thing that was interesting there. And the other thing that really fascinates me about that case is that, So many people, they get away with murder once and they, they keep pushing their love. Like, here's this guy, he got away with murder. He got the sympathy of the community. Oh, this poor man, his wife's been murdered and he, he was forced to kill this other man who was killing, you know, attacking his wife.
Um, you know, got some insurance, got the, got the [00:49:00] nanny, got got everything. And then he decides, oh, he was gonna, he was gonna, he tried to sue the shuttle, Dr. A shuttle, uh, company. Yeah. With which, for whom? The, uh, this poor dead man, his name was Roger Harrington worked and he, he's wanted to sue this shuttle shuttle company because, because the driver came into his house and killed his wife.
He, it when he, he invited this. Shuttle driver over to their house to to [00:49:30] work things out. And really the whole time he planned to kill him and make it look like he killed his wife. Is that at all, like, uh, is, is that all understandable? It's really complicated. I, I, I
Collier Landry: think so. I, I think what you're getting at is that he pushed his luck and he wanted to commit another murder.
Yeah. And then where he got, I, I, I think that one of the things. You know, when I think about the allure of true crime is the fascination with the predictability of stupidity. Yes, yes. Or the predictability of hubris, Really? Yes. In my [00:50:00] father's case, you know, I recently learned, I interviewed the judge from my father's trial.
The judge said to me that my father rented a cold storage. and, uh, you put down his ID so he could store my mother's body in a cold storage while he was digging her grave underneath the house. Yeah. Oh. Or in the basement floor. I mean, it's just, you know, and these are things that I didn't know, you know, they were in the trial, obviously, but I haven't watched the trial.
I haven't really read the trial. I haven't, you know, I'm now fascinated to get the [00:50:30] trial transcripts, but you. again, you're putting your ID down. You've rented a jackhammer, first of all, like that, That was the first thing. But, but then you, you put your ID down and you do these things. And again, you know, I, I, I mean, thank God that they do do this because maybe they wouldn't have stopped.
Like I am very convinced that my father would've done it again. Oh. And he might have killed his girlfriend who impregnated, you know, eventually if she [00:51:00] got in the way of something, or maybe she found something out. You know, uh, I, I think to someone who is a psychopath, just like a Jeffrey Daher, you know, people are expendable, , I guess anything that gets in their way is expendable.
Any creature living, breathing creature that is in their way is expendable. And it, it's, um, it's terrifying. But I think that, you know, you can find a little bit of solace in the fact that these [00:51:30] people do make mistake. They do tip their hand and yes, they ultimately get caught or else we wouldn't be hearing about it if they didn't get caught.
Rebecca Reisner: Yeah, exactly. He was this guy, he was greedy. He wanted, he thought he could sue this, uh, shuttle company for millions. And as you know, people, companies don't love to be sued, so sometimes they hire private investigators, . And then it was figured out. The whole thing was figured out that, you know, what happened.
And, and so now he's in, he's in [00:52:00] prison. While he was in prison. Wonderful. He devised an even more dbol, diabolical, uh, scheme for getting out and chilling a bunch of people. The, uh, the fellow prisoner, uh, spilled the beans to the, to the, uh, and now the guys, he's got like life plus 35 years. He's never getting out.
Collier Landry: he's never getting out. Yeah. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Well, [00:52:30] You know, again, forensic files is about the good investigation and the detective work that goes into solving these cases and taking these horrible human beings off the streets and putting them where they belong, which is behind bars. Yes, and that's a good thing.
So the book is Forensic Files Now named after the extremely popular blog. My guest today is Rebecca Rener, the creator and founder of Forensic Files Now blog, and now the author of the [00:53:00] official book Forensic Files Now, which yours truly is in chapter 27 27. This book is available everywhere you purchase books from Amazon, Barnes and Noble Books.
A Million comes out tomorrow, October 15th. 2022. Check it out. Guys. Rebecca, thank you so much for coming on the program. Where can our listeners find you?
Rebecca Reisner: Oh gosh. Uh, forensic files, uh, now.com. That's, that's my blog. [00:53:30] That's where I am. Uh, contact me through there. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.
I love working with you. Oh, thank
Collier Landry: you so much. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. Um, Rebecca, you have a wonderful, uh, day. Thank you for so much for being on the
Rebecca Reisner: program. Absolutely. Take care. Bye-bye.
Collier Landry: Well, that was an interesting conversation with Rebecca. Look, you know, as I said at the top of the program, I really do.
Um, I really do appreciate Rebecca reaching out to me when she wanted to do a story [00:54:00] on the blog about me and the case and my mother, and just wanting to hear my, my thoughts and opinions on it. I also, you know, did not know. The creators of forensic files, um, that they took such care to, uh, you know, not have certain scenes in episodes that victims were a part of and not show, you know, obviously photographs of the crime scene of the, of their loved one's body and, and things of that nature.
Um, so that's, there is, there is [00:54:30] thought that goes into some of this true crime content creation. And again, as she talks, Even with the reenactments, making sure that they had the proper, the proper funding to do the right thing with the actors and the talent and make sure they had stunt coordinators and things like that, that the scenes were shot properly, they weren't being pane or penny pinching.
And that goes a long way to show that they are actually really concerned about not only the cases that they. But also the way that they treat their staff, , their employees, their, the [00:55:00] talent that work with them. Uh, that is a good sign. I mean, look, I've worked in Hollywood for over 10 years and, um, it is, uh, you know, sometimes it's not always the best working condition.
So to know that they've gone outta their way to do that, that, that sit well with me. To be honest with you, you know, I might not agree with all the material. I, I do like that they've tried to take care of their, of their team to create the content that they have and the program that they have. And, uh, again, you know, forensic files, I, you know, I don't know where you stand on it, but, um, [00:55:30] you know, uh, the work that they showcase, at least with my mother's case with David Mess more, uh, Tony Ta Basco in the crime lab of the Mansfield Police Department and the work that they did in bringing justice for my.
Was extraordinary, and I am really, really grateful for that. So, um, I do like what this program highlights a lot of times with the investigative side of it and, and helping to keep perpetrators off the street because that's ultimately the goal of raising awareness and discussing true crime is [00:56:00] so you don't have to be a victim, or a survivor like myself.
Uh, that is the whole point of, of all of this. So, um, Anyways, uh, on that note, I'm Collier Landry and this is moving past murder. Thanks y'all.
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