• Collier Landry

Answering Your TikTok Questions: "Did my grandma know about my mother's murder?"

In episode 41 of Moving Past Murder, host Collier Landry answers some of his TikTok audience's questions in an open and honest conversational episode of the show. Collier also takes a moment to weigh in on some rumors circling Reddit and the Twittersphere, his opinion on the importance of "Conscious True Crime" consumerism, and how the actions of the few should not overshadow the many survivors and victims sharing their stories in their search for justice.


The audience questions he responds to include the following:

  • What are a few of the things you've had to deal with because of what your father has done?

  • Do you think your grandmother knew that your mom was dead? Or do you think that she really believed that she just up and left?

  • I was an elementary school teacher, I would have believed you. I am so glad that cop (meaning Lt. David Messmore) gave you his business card.

  • Were you worried for your own safety?

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Full Show Notes

Collier Landry 00:02

I would snap out of it about 90 seconds later, two people pulling me off someone and blood all over my hands. I was really worried because my father was a rageaholic. And his temper was so violent. He was so apoplectic out of nowhere for the most miniscule of things I remember him threatening to beat my mother to death for I think I think I dropped an egg on the floor out of a carton one time. I mean, just the most miniscule of things and I know and I look, I know that that's not like unique to me. There's many are many, many people that have grown up with domestic violence and domestic abuse and it is a very real thing to grow up in fear of your household.

Intro Stinger 00:49

Testimony continued today in the most notorious criminal trial in Richland County history. Dr. John Boyle is accused of killing his wife, Noreen, and burying her body in the basement of his new home in Erie, Pennsylvania. The 12-year-old son finally took the stand. I heard a scream, I heard a thud. It was about this loud. We the jury find the defendant guilty.

Collier Landry 01:08

When I was twelve years old, my testimony sent my father to prison for murdering my mother. This podcast serves as a type of therapy and reconciliation for myself, and it is my hope that it helps anyone who has experienced deception, betrayal, and dark trauma. I’m Collier Landry, and this is Moving Past Murder.


Hey Movers what's going on? Welcome back to another episode of Moving Past Murder. I'm your host Collier Landry and what's going on everybody what's going on? What's going on (*singing.) One of these days I'll get tired of singing that song or I'll get in trouble. One or the other. Anyways, I'm in a good mood, I've got a great episode for you guys today.


Thank you so much for tuning in. And I want to say give a special shout out to my new Patreon subscribers, just Jules and Shelly Sakal. Thank you guys so much for contributing to the program. If you want to contribute in his patreon.com forward slash call your Landry, your support is appreciated because things like that allow me to continue making content that I feel best suits you guys, my audience and I really love what I do. So I'm excited to have everyone's support. And thank you to all of you guys that are joining me when you see me on Tik Tok. Thank you for all my fans that are joining me every Tuesday at 11am Pacific 2pm Eastern time on my Instagram lives, where I answer your questions and answers and we are going to be doing Tik Tok live very soon. I promise I'm going to get on that schedule. Just a lot. And there's been a lot going on in my life. I've been shooting commercials and things like that. Working on a documentary, and then doing the podcast, which I love doing. So thank you all so much for just supporting. If you're watching this on Youtube, LIKE subscribe, please, it helps with the algorithm.


For those of you that are tuning in via Apple podcast, Spotify, thank you so much for subscribing, listing your positive reviews and even your so-so reviews are welcome. And even if you want to write something nasty, that's fine, too. I suppose. I'll probably read it on the air though. So be warned. Speaking of that, I want to every week I do do a random either DM or comment on YouTube that I do reach you guys just to sort of answer a question that people ask me. But this particular week, I am going to answer a bunch of those questions because recently, as some of you know, I started really posting on Tik Tok telling my story and a little bit more of an intimate way to the camera, which I think is super cool. And my Tiktok has blown up. So thank you, all of you guys who are supporting there. But I have lots and lots of questions that you guys have asked me so I wanted to devote this week's episode to answer some of those questions and I realized I can do that on Tik Tok. And you guys know all know that. But I kind of wanted to do it on the podcast because I felt like it and I feel like some of these answers might really benefit the entire audience, for those of you that are not on Tik Tok. And, you know, I can extrapolate a little bit more, because a lot of people that have discovered me on Tiktok have not seen the film A Murder in Mansfield, or they have not heard my podcast, they're just looking at stories. And it's, it's a very cool platform because I'm able to speak to a different audience that that is really like, you know, there are a lot of really great people and creators on Tik Tok that are that are posting about trauma, trauma, recovery, mental health awareness, things of that nature, that are really important to them. And so to be able to speak to those people, and in a whole different way is a really cool thing and a powerful tool. And so I'm really grateful for that opportunity. And I'm really grateful for the sport so in a way sort of give back and also to generally enhance the program. I wanted to read these Questions. So here we go. That's really the rest of this of the spiel.


Well, for those of you that may or may not know, obviously, a lot of people have come to this program or discovered me because of they may have seen my case on Forensic Files, which is an extremely popular episode, I believe it is called Foundation of Lies, Season five, Episode 13. If I'm not mistaken, don't quote me. And I've actually interviewed the woman who runs the Forensic Files now blog, which is very popular. She's writing a book which will be out this fall. Her name is Rebecca Reisner. I interviewed her a few months ago on the podcast, really wonderful woman, because I am genuinely, genuinely curious why people come in to true crime. I have my own strong opinions about it. And there are many people that ask me, and this is not a particular tick tock question. But this, many people asked me about the film, and was i into true crime and all the stuff, the actual truth of all of this, and I will get into like my filmmaking journey and how I came to Hollywood and why I did all this, but it's pretty much because I wanted to tell them about their story and share my story, and help others. My film was directed by a woman named Barbara Kopple. She has won two Academy Awards for documentaries. She's very well known in that in that industry, in the filmmaking industry, she is very well respected, obviously, an amazing filmmaker, and she is on filming films on many people from the Dixie Chicks shut up and sing film to miss Sharon Jones to her two Academy Award winning films, American dreams, and Harlan County, USA, which was her first Academy Award that she won, which is amazing. And it's like in the National Archives, I believe, don't quote me, but, you know, her films have really, really given empowerment to female directors, and also really helped give voices to people who would voice to the voiceless not to use a cliche term. But she has really been a pioneer in that when we made the film of murder man. So we set out just to make a film to tell my story to tell the story of my mother, and her murder and to show I was very passionate about the consequences of violence. And I had a lot of very strong feelings about how our society looked at violent crime and in particularly in the United States. My concern at the time, and had been my entire live literally my entire life leading up until then, is that the sentiment is the bad guy goes to jail. The state gets his restitution, the victim is dead and the gavel hits and we say next, and we don't examine the consequences of violence on communities, ancillary victims, the non combat PTSD that occurs, all of these things that impact society as a whole because of violent actions. And in last week's episode, I discussed a little bit with Jami Rice from the podcast murderous but about her new podcast, which is Dirty Money Moves: women in white collar crime, and my interest in how financial crimes particularly seem to spawn I think they're even more insidious than just downright murder and other violent crime because they tend to create more violent crime because someone's financial livelihood and safety that is taken from them and then they that causes them to do really bad things. It causes violence and families and violence in communities and things like that. So I'm passionate I'm very passionate about that. I think you guys haven't listen to the podcast know this already. But I set out to we just had to make a good film. We went to normal film festivals, very extraordinary film festivals like IDFA doc nyc hotdocs. In Toronto, which I have a tattoo from Nashville Film Festival. AFI film, AFI doc fest, I mean, very well respected. international film festivals. It was very cool. It was an amazing experience. I think we were on a total of like 50 or 60 of them, which is a really good run. And but something that the entertainment magazine Variety said at the time was Barbara Coppel. latest film comes dressed as true crime, but it is really a plea for humanity. And that is really true. And we didn't set out to make a true crime film that said, I got into doing this podcast as an extension of that. Because I had done the film, I traveled around speaking, I did a TED talk, and then the pandemic hits and there's like, Okay, what am I doing? And I started the podcast because of my just wanting to extend the story of wanting to help more people and also this is very therapeutic for myself as well to talk about these things. Read my father's letters from prison and show you guys you know, narcissism, manipulation, gaslighting, psychopathy, sociopathy, all these wonderful things that affect us in violent and true crime. One of the things I didn't really understand, and as I'm getting to know, with my recent trip to crime con in Las Vegas now a little over a month ago, is the sort of insidious underbelly that lies in the true crime world. And I'm very specifically talking about podcasts and television shows, and people that host those podcasts and television shows, and that create this content, and how it is not survivor centric, but how it is money and profit centric. And, look, full disclosure, my goal is to monetize this podcast, so I can do this full time as a living. And I can and bring content that I feel is really important from a survivor perspective. That said, there are a lot of people that exploit victims and survivors and true crime. And I'm becoming more and more aware of this, because I had no clue this goes on because I am. Despite everything, I've been through a very optimistic and passionate person, and I just don't believe that the world is this dark and evil place all the time. I'm not suspicious, I don't operate under a guise of suspicion or like, what is that person's motives? or this or that? And maybe I should maybe that's my own naivete. I don't know, I don't think it's a very good way to live. There are a lot of people that asked me, Am I paranoid about my father getting out of prison? Am I afraid of my father? And this and that? No, I'm not, you know, I do have moments that I think about it, but I don't operate that way. ------------------ That said, I'm becoming keenly aware from some very specific survivors, how their stories are exploited, but, and I knew that and I look, I made the film A Murder in Mansfield, because I wanted to tell my story, my mother's story, I wanted to honor my mother, I didn't do it for money, and I made the least amount of money. And I've anyone that has not, that is not the case here. And I don't really care about that. That's not why I did it. And that's not what I'm talking about. But on that note, there is a lot of talk in the Twitter Twittersphere. In the Reddit forums, there are people that are using their power under the guise and the veil of journalistic integrity to not only manipulate victims stories, but also to manipulate them themselves for sexual exploitation. They're predators, they are sexual predators. I was witness to this from afar recently. And I've had people come to me with the stories and I've been, they've been verified and I've worked in the entertainment industry for close to 15, maybe even 20 years. I saw the fallout of the Harvey Weinstein scandals. It's quite one thing to exploit a survivor story for personal and professional profit is quite another to exploit them in a way that is predatory in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable when they've already been victimized. And as though you can those of you that can see me on youtube you see my little twitching in my little sort of thing because I get very angry when I think about this because this is shit my father did. This is sociopathic, narcissistic, callous wanton behavior. And for that these individuals and those that protect them should be excoriated. So we'll be interesting to see what happens in the next several months. But yeah, I think we're gonna see people want to see true crime conscious true crime now to today's episode after I've kind of gone through my little diatribe. So like I said, various people have reached out to me on Tik Tok. You guys have a lot of questions and I wanted to get to some of them because they are really interesting. So, first one comes from just beautifully broken. And she asks, What are a few One of the things you've had to deal with because of what your father has done that is pretty much an episode in and in and of itself. I would say obviously, well, let me actually, I guess, let me speak from a survivor victims sort of standpoint in a personal sort of way, so let's forget the destruction that is done to my family, let's forget the, the, let's forget all the standard things of how disorders, the families, communities, things like that. Let's just look at me personally. So I would say one of the main things I've had to deal with in my personal life is, first of all, there is a stigma that you carry around. And I often wonder, with people who are, who have parents that let's say, are serial killers, or parents who are, you know, are murderers or serial rapist or pedophiles or whatever? Insert heinous crime here. I almost wonder I mean, I think that we all do carry around the same sort of stigma, which is, am I capable of this? Took me a very long time to reconcile with this in a lot of ways, because, you know, I was I was on a podcast recently, and somebody had asked me this, uh, do you think you're capable of these types of things, and, you know, I was discussing. When I was in high school, I was bullied, right? And which happens in high school, you know, and bullies throw you up against the locker, they pick on you, whatnot. Maybe part of it had to do with who I was at the time and I had stayed in the community that all this occurred, which is Mansfield, Ohio, I went to Ontario high school, shout out to the Warriors, I would get picked on. And I would have these moments where you're like, somebody was shoved me into a locker. And part of me wanted to retaliate. Because I was a small kid, I was, I was a big kid. You know, I wasn't somebody who really pushed around. But I had this like fear in the back of my head that when that happened, I would snap out of it. About 90 seconds later, two people pulling me off someone and blood all over my hands. I was really worried because my father was a rageaholic. And his temper was so violent, he was so apoplectic, out of nowhere. For the most miniscule things I remember him threatening to beat my mother to death for I think we're, I think I dropped an egg on the floor out of a carton one time. I mean, just the most miniscule of things. And I know, and I look, I know that that's not like, unique to me, there's many are many, many people that have grown up with domestic violence and domestic abuse and parents who are, you know, violent, whether that's caused by substance or alcohol abuse, or whether that is just, you know, how they are, in general, it is a very real thing to grow up in fear of your household, I would say to myself, don't retaliate, because you, you, maybe you're capable of that. And I didn't want to be because I'm not a violent person. And it took me a very, very long time to really reconcile that. And it probably wasn't until I started doing, you know, Hanahan combat training, like, you know, mixed martial arts or boxing that I realized that like, I'm not going to be that person is just going to explode because also it's very real, to get into a fight. And I was a, you know, I was attacked years ago in Hollywood, I was jumped by five men. And I'm here to tell about it. But it was very, very scary. And I feel very fortunate I got away with my life because I looked on the same corner. Three months prior, somebody had been stabbed to death. So don't go out after dark and Hollywood around a bunch of drunk crazy people. Yeah, anyways. But so I guess I thought that there was going to be this, this sort of unhinged rage that would come out of me. So I grew up sort of in fear of that, like, am I capable of that am I in and when I made the film of murder Manson? I think the answer is really solved for me in a way because I also felt like am I capable because you know, the whole adage apple doesn't fall far from the tree, blah, blah, blah. I always thought like, okay, am I capable of doing harm to someone that I love, whether that's physical domestic violence, whether that is whether that would have been something is as callous and as heinous as murder and murdering my wife or my partner. You know, Uh, it was always something I knew in my heart I wasn't capable of, but your head sometimes gets in the way of these things. And you're like, well, could I do that? Could that happen? I mean, that's real shit, man. And I think that there are people that go through traumatic circumstances such as myself. Yeah, those things are in the back of our mind, for sure. So there was there was a lot that, that went through my head prior to making the film or Mansell. And it really wasn't until when I sat down with my Father in the film, and sort of, and I had this moment of just like, Okay, that is, you know, and I had. And, you know, as I've said many times, before, I had a relationship with my father livid leading up to that I communicated with him, I would see him in prison when I was when I would come back to Ohio. So I would maintain that relationship, whatever that relationship really was, it was very surface to be quite honest. But I realized at that moment that we are just, we couldn't be farther apart in that way, you know, and I feel that I got most of my inherited traits from my mother. But I also feel that I could probably get the best traits for my father and not his worse. And that was a very big relief for me. Because of that, now, on the flip side, it's one thing to convince yourself of that. But it is quite another thing to convince others of that. So one of the other ancillary sort of consequences of my father's actions that I had to deal with personally, is the fact that I would be involved in a relationship with a girl. And naturally, probably, I would say the same thing, if it was my child, people would find out my story. And obviously this this got way more amplified when, when the documentary was coming out a documentary came out, but people were concerned, like, you're dating this guy whose father murdered his mother. And not only that, but, you know, the, the hard thing for I think most parents or anyone to reconcile about the murder is it wasn't a crime of passion. It was premeditated. My father had a mistress, he bought a house, he bought the house with the intent of burying my mother in the basement, you know, all of it was premeditated. So that's, that's a big deal. And that is very, very hard for I think a parent or for anyone who has an inner relationship, or whose child is gauged in a relationship, or maybe they are themselves in a relationship, it's really hard for them to sort of, like reconcile with that it really is. So. Yeah, that was, that's a hard thing to explain away, like, hey, parents of my girlfriend that I'm dating, Dale, I'm totally normal. I promise, Pinky swear, scouts honor. You know, it's, it's hard, especially because not everyone is as open minded as in this world as you'd like them to be. So, I mean, it was hard. It's hard. Well, it hasn't even been convinced of my of my real family, of my birth family, that I am not my father. I mean, my, my mother's side of the family, still, many of them still believe that I am just like my father, without any proof, and solely based on the fact that my father is such a horrible human being that, that they just blamed me for that. And that is, again, another consequence of violence. And one of the impetus for the film and the creation of a murderer Mansfield. And for the for the creation of this podcast, is just to share these very personal things with with you guys. Yeah, so that's a loaded question. I can literally do about 10 episodes of the podcast on this one. And really go down and break down into detail what this is, because I think that is a very common thread throughout survivors, stories that this is what takes place. So there you have it, just beautifully broken. I am just beautifully broken like you. Hopefully you're not. But yeah, so thank you for the question. is super cool, and hopefully you guys glean a little bit out of that. Next question is from Flip The Cat 120. Do you think your grandmother knew that your mom was dead? Or do you think that she really believed that she just up and left? That's another sort of thing and this is interesting because I did an episode probably two and some episodes ago called TikTok family reunion. And it was because I had just sort of gotten into my tick tock count this was before I was posting. But I had seen somebody follow me and they reach out to me and they were related. On my father's side, they hadn't married my father's cousin. And, and, and now her and I are becoming very close. So she's technically a little bit younger than my mother. But I'm very happy that she's on Tik Tok because I was blown away, she's very savvy. And she happens to be a trauma therapist. And, you know, her and I have engaged in a lot of dialogue about this. But she, having been been married to my father's cousin, she had a lot of insight into like, quote, Italian men and their mothers, and how their mothers protect them. And this is something I'm not really knowledgeable about other than the fact that was very odd. Because my grandmother, Christine Boyle, who was married, or I'm sorry, who was my father's mother, she had an incredibly close relationship with my mother. Like almost a mother daughter relationship, because my mother was not particularly close with her mother. And my grandmother is not particularly close with her daughter in those ways. And they just seem to bond they had a lot in common my grandmother was a form of model was very poised and very just had this sort of mannerism about it. And my mother was very much the same way as in very poised and composed and very classy and in a lot of ways, and they were they were thick as thieves. So to see the sort of flip in my grandmother from that, being so close with my mother, too, then jumping into buying into the narrative of my father, you know, my mother left in the middle of the night through the credit cards out and we're not going to call the police now that I always wondered that too. And I seeing the situation play out as an 11 year old child, and knowing what was going on. The thing that I picked up on with my grandmother was, she was supporting her son, family is everything right? And they her behavior was such as a protective mother, I really do believe that. And I was pretty much confirmed that because when my grandmother This is a whole other story, but which I won't get into about the passing of my grandmother and but a few weeks before my grandmother passed away. As a little old Italian woman with her with her grandson in the kitchen, we were making blood cells on her pizzelle iron. And my grandmother was, you know, she at the time, I believe she was 84. So she was, you know, sort of drifting in and out of maybe a slight bit of senility, not really, she was still pretty sharp. But you know, you're older, right? And I should be so lucky when I'm that age. Shouldn't even make it to that age. But she she said to me something I'll never forget. And she was we were making pizzelles. And then she just started talking about something and she just kind of stares off. Just thinking as much as I do. Seems like I'm rambling. Is she as she said, quote, My Jackie? What a waste of talent. Was it 97? And, or 90? Does it 98 Actually, when she said that, and I remember thinking it was 1998. And I remember thinking, Hmm, she didn't. She didn't she wasn't in on it. And not that I had thought that before that because I didn't. But I really realized at that moment, I'm really grateful for having that moment with her at that time before because she passed away maybe a month later. I'm not really sure when she did because that's a whole other story for a whole other episode. But it was a nice piece of I don't know if I would call it closure. But what I would call it is it was it really gave me a sense of peace that she wasn't she had no ill will towards my mother and I later found out When I was doing pre production on the documentary exactly how much my father's family loved, and appreciated my mother, that was really, really cool. But, and I knew that my grandmother loved my mother. But you know, it was her son, and her oldest son, her firstborn, that had committed this crime. And let's just face it. My father is a master manipulator. But on top of that, she's an Italian mother. And they're and as, as my cousin puts it, the Italian mothers feel that their sons can do no wrong. So, you know, and my grandmother full disclosure did sell her house to help pay for my father's legal fees, which were astonishingly huge. He had a powerful defense team behind him, and he convinced her to do so. And really, if he was a man, he would have owned up to it said, Mom use that money to live the rest of your days and not be stressed. But he didn't. That's a whole other conversation for another day. So I hope that answers your question. Flip the cat 120. But yeah, I don't think she was in on it. I think that maybe that my father did a really good job, despite her better judgment to convince her that she did leave. Ah, anyways, this one comes from Kim Pestle LeBlanc says, I just watched your documentary this past weekend. Has anything changed between you and your father in the past five years since filming? No. Sorry. For those of you I have brought my dog up. And I'm going to show her to the audience. My little doggie is whining. And this is Blondie for those of you watching on YouTube on the USA. Hi. She's gonna yawn. Yeah, okay. She's up here because she's, she's older. She's a senior citizen herself. She's 17 and a half, almost. So little chihuahua. She weighs about five pounds. Yo, Boosh. So anyways, for those of you watching on YouTube, that is Blondie, cuz people have always asked about her. And for those you listening, you sort of heard a little bit of Blondie in the background. So to answer your question, Kim pestle Leblanc. So nothing has really changed between my father. And I, like I had said earlier in the program, my father, I maintained a relationship with my father over the years, but it was a very surface relationship wasn't a lot of things that I could. It wasn't like a fatherly love relationship like, Hey, Dad, let's talk about life. Other than the fact that we would talk about life as it pertained to him, he was very good and very interested in that. And he would, it's interesting when you're in conversation with someone who is a narcissist or a sociopath, because all roads lead back to them, anything that they give you, or do for you is a sort of an angle on what their agenda is. So and look, human beings in general, human beings as a species, we are manipulative, we have that sort of DNA built into our genetic code, or whatever, I realized that DNA is genetic code. But you know what I mean, we have that built into us where we want to get our way, it's why we have left brain right brain where we have left side bias when we're trying to read people, right? Because we're reading people and dogs, by the way, have the same recognition. That's why they're so good at manipulating human beings. Case in point being this little one sitting right over my shoulder. But I think that, you know, my father and I had this relationship, which was very service, we would talk about things like sports, we would talk about things like very general. And I would also navigate a lot of my conversation with my father away from things that were really important to me, because I knew that I wasn't really going to get the answers that I wanted anyways, just like, he couldn't tell me why he murdered my mother, right? He had no reason so, but he had stories. So it's I tried to always make sure that it was pleasant and talk about certain things about what I was doing. He was very, my father is very is a very intelligent man. So I could get a lot of things out of him when talking to him because he's so intelligent. So he had really good perspectives and perceptions on things and especially when it came to like dealing with certain situations because he would see like an angle or whatever, because he himself has an agenda all the time, non stop 24 hours a day. So when you're getting a perspective from someone like that, it actually is very valuable when you're looking for something because they know what to look for. I mean, they don't realize they're telling you this is a really interesting thing about a narcissist and a sociopath because they lack empathy because they really they Really do only care about themselves. And how what what you are in relation to them affects them and their well being. It's like a survival mechanism almost in a certain way. So if I wanted something I had to sort of make an appeal to his his sensibilities like how it's good for him, right? Yeah, it's interesting. And then there's, you know, an episode about 1012 episodes ago called Surviving your murder in Mansfield with Dr. Dennis maracas who is in the film a murder in Mansfield. He is a psychologist that I see that I'm very open and honest with and authentic and vulnerable in my discussions. And he is, he is someone, you know, that pointed out to me, as I asked him in that episode, I said, Why do you think my father was such a good doctor? Why, you know, people loved him, why was he such a good doctor. And he explained to me that people who are narcissists, they tend to enter professions, because he was the healer, people were dependent upon him, he felt the, you know, he was wanted in and he felt superior because of that. And that's, and people who are that way tend to engage in professions like that, because it benefits their ego, and who they are. Which is fascinating. And it's, it's sort of like, okay, they become so good at what they're doing. But it's really all about them. And you're, and you're just along for the ride. So because they're really good at what they do, because it's all about them. You ended up getting really great care. For example, my father, being a doctor, you end up getting this really great care from the doctor, because he's most concerned about himself and his reputation. And, and ultimately, it's, it's very interesting. So there was always like these agenda filled conversations. And so when I say to my father, when he gets up, and I hug him, and I say, I love you pop, and look, that was something I didn't even remember saying, it wasn't until a guy from The New York Times is interviewing me. And he said, Hey, you know, I saw the film. He's like, there's something that stood out in the film, that you say, that literally sums you up in three seconds. I said, what is that? And he goes, Well, when your father gets something after he won't give you the answer, and you're discussing all these things. And you just say, I love you pop when you hug him. Like that tells me everything I need to know about you. And I was really flattered by that. I thought that was a really heartfelt comment to say to me. Well, also, I thought about it. And I'm like, well, he is my father. I do love him. Because he is my father. But also, you know, what choice do I have? So but no, I have not the relationship has not changed. I mean, I'm in a perpetual state of forgiveness with my father, because it's really about myself, and moving on shows called Moving past murder for a reason. But yeah, it's um, the relationship has not changed. And I look my father's email me, I probably should get a look at this. The other day, to be honest, there's a lot of times that I think about, you know, what happens when he's gone? And am I ready for that? Am I really ready for that? I feel that I'm at peace, and that I've had this whole thing that like, Am I like, I don't know. I really don't. That's about as honest as that is as honest as I can be. Because I'm just not sure. Hope I am. I don't know. It's another stage of life. I don't know if I'm ready for. But anyways. Last question is from well, there's many questions, but this is the last one we addressed in this episode. Last question is from blueberry buckle, says, I was an elementary school teacher, I would have believed you. I am so glad that cop meaning David Messmore gave you his business card. Were you worried for your own safety? The short answer would be yes. The longer answer is yes, but I didn't care. So while they've and I believe that the period of time that she's referencing I know is when is between when my mother went missing, and when my mother's body was found. And when I was actively working with police, and specifically Dave masse, more the detective and he was coming to my school, and I was giving him all the information. And the interesting thing is, is the more that I talk about this in interviews, or on podcast, or on the podcast itself, or on ticket wherever I'm described, the more that I talk about a period, honestly, the more I think about how dangerous that was as a child, and also how valuable the information that I gave him was, because if I had followed my father's direction which was we're not going to talk to the cops, we're not going to call the FBI, which when he said the FBI thought that was the most bizarre thing in the world something and we live in a small town in Ohio, why would the FBI care? And why would you say this, like, you've just escalated things, because I knew my mother was dead. And that was even further proof that morning of December 31 1989, when my father is saying this to me, but I realized now and in talking to other survivors and other victims and families that are looking to get closure for the loss of a loved one, whether that loved one is still a missing person, or whether a loved one was killed, but the perpetrator has not been brought to justice. Or they are currently in in a legal situation where they're waiting for that perpetrator to be brought to justice looking at Sara Turney, there is there is such value and what I was able to do as a child and and the moment that I seized without even I knew it was an opportunity, but I didn't realize how great that opportunity was. Because if I had followed what my father's direction was, which was not talking to cops, that isn't the case never would have probably gone to the lengths that it did. Because Dave mess war would not have known the backstory of what was going on with my father what was going on with his relationship with my mother, what was his history? What was the history with his mistress slash girlfriend, Sherri Campbell, what was all of this that was leading up to the discovery of my mother's body. And you know, forget me finding the house and the end the picture of of the mistress in front of the fireplace wrapped in plastic with her two kids, which ultimately led them to the Erie Pennsylvania House where they discovered my mother's body buried underneath the basement floor spoiler alert. But they it was it was like giving insider information. It was like insider trading in the stock market because I had all this info that normal police officers police detectives are not privy to, because nobody talks to the cops like keep your mouth shut. Don't talk to the cops. Okay. And the thing is, is that because I chose to do that I was gave them like a headstart. And you know, it took a it took 25 days for them to find my 26 days really for them to find my mother's body. If they hadn't had that Headstart, it may have been months or a year and I guarantee it wouldn't have happened. And that's really the thing that why I do this podcast why I talk about this, why we made the film is to bring awareness to this type of thing. Because look, I was telling someone the other day, you have Robert Durst, who recently passed away of COVID of all things, you know, a psychopath, you know, if you guys haven't seen The Jinx, fantastic series on HBO. Amazing, you know, he was about ready to face charges for murdering his wife, Kathleen McCormack, who went missing in like 1984. And they were, I don't know if they were getting a divorce or what it was. And look, Robert Durst has come from a wealthy New York real estate family. But that's not why they weren't investigating it. They were investigating because all the leaves were cold. It wasn't because somebody paid off the cops because his family didn't like him. And it wasn't because there was any interference that there the interference was later because they wanted to separate themselves from him cuz they knew he was a psycho, the brother was afraid of him. If you watch the series, you'll understand. But they, they really, they really didn't pursue the case, despite the urgency of her family. Because they didn't have anything. And it makes me really realize like, how fortunate I was for recognizing that opportunity, how fortunate for closure for myself, for the community, for my family, whatever it is that because I was able to give that information they were able to find my mother. I mean, this is a very hard subject to talk about. Honestly, I'm trying not to get emotional, but it was a really unique position. And I think the more and more I discussed these things, I realized exactly how precious that was for me to do that. And despite a fear of my father and things like that, because yes, I was very much afraid of my father, and I was afraid of his retaliation. And I was afraid of you know that he was going to find out and then when he told me that he was going to take me to Florida for a medical convention. That's when I went to Dave Mesmer and said, Give me the fuck out of this house. Didn't use the fuck where But so I was a child, but that's the thing. So I think ultimately I was able to be a voice for my mother. And really leave things on because there's not many, there's unfortunately, not many people who have the benefit of that. But there are people that do do it. There are people that are really becoming voices for justice, all this era attorney for her sister. There are people that are really advocating for that. And because often, and I've spoken about this many times, but it's, you know, 45% of murders in the United States as of 2022 go unsolved. And a lot of these murders and these dismissing persons cases are disappearances. And let's just keep it real. It's mostly women. 90%, probably 95%. And it's always because of some sort of domestic abuse situation, or a situation where, you know, there is a there is a divorce, or there's an argument or there's you there's there's a history of this womanizing or philandering. And it's, I mean, you look at other cases, and there's a, you know, a very tragic case of Melinda K Davis and my hometown of Mansfield, Ohio, and, you know, with a domestic, you know, violent boyfriend, and then, you know, she's found horrific ly in the back of a car, the trunk of a car, I mean, it's just it's a problem. And so if anything gets, if anything happens out of this program, or this my story, it's that, you know, speak up. And because, and, and it's also something, you know, people get very frustrated with law enforcement, but also, when law enforcement doesn't have any leads, and they have nothing to go on, they can't keep pursuing a case, without any sort of evidence, they can't, they can't keep going after it. Because we do have a justice system in this country. And it is innocent until proven guilty. And that is a wonderful thing for the justice system, especially when it works in your favor, when you are wrongfully accused, and some people unfortunately, are wrongfully accused and then go to prison and then are exonerated years later, which we will get into at some point in this program.


But there is also a, you know, there's also a limit to what law enforcement can do. And it's not for a lack of want, or for caring and compassion for those families that are grieving the loss of their loved one or the disappearance of a loved one. It's just It's overwhelming. There's a lot of this shift that goes on and really the way to combat this is knowledge and empowerment of all this and I'm gonna get off my soapbox, I promise but let me beat this I will die on this hill is just you, you know, you have to be proactive, unfortunately.


And there are many people that are doing this and I am very fortunate I am not I am not immune to the fact that I am very fortunate that I did get justice for my mother. And there are so many families that are out there longing for this and for to you guys my heart breaks for you. But know that it will come. But you know persistence and it's a marathon not a sprint, unfortunately, and you know, never give up. So hopefully that hopefully my story helps I feel it does empower a lot of you guys anyways. Look, it doesn't always matter what I think what matters is what you guys think. If you found this episode informative, helpful for you in any way, please reach out to me you can find me on all the social platforms at Collier, Landry. You can reach out to me at moving patent moving past murder@gmail.com.


But reach out to me on my DMs I do read them I don't get to all of them. I try to respond as much as I can. But until this program generates the generate something to help me sustain it. I do have a regular like filmmaking and I'm doing all these things. And so I do get busy from time to time and just understand that and I'll understand that you guys want to get your questions answered and we'll meet somewhere in the middle. I think it's a great play. I think it's a great way to do it. But yeah, please reach out to me I do read what you guys say I do take to heart your comments when I see them. And I read them I try to like them and I try to respond as much as I can just know that I hear you. And I love hearing from you and I always want to hear how I can improve this program and deliver content that suits you guys best my audience.


I'm Collier Landry, and this is Moving Past Murder. Thanks y'all.


This podcast is made possible by support from listeners just like you. Please subscribe via Apple Podcasts, Spotify Audible; you can find us on YouTube HTTP://www.youtube.com/CollierLandry The film A Murder In Mansfield, is available on Investigation Discovery, Discovery Plus, and Amazon Prime Video.


This podcast is a production of don't touch my radio in association with RSA entertainment. Please visit HTTP://www.mpmpodcast.com to show your support today.

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